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Mad Men; Season 7
Topic Started: Jan 11 2014, 01:42 PM (3,378 Views)
Krystal
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That's the problem with having the show gone so long. Big can't remember last season.
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Marg
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I liked the Betty/Bobbie sl. We haven't seen Betty in awhile and she is an important part of the show. Sure she is not a great mother and doesn't seem to have a clue about her children's needs. But at least she was trying.

Didn't care for the Megan sl -- she always acts so immature, when situations don't meet her approval.

I was really surprised that everyone rejected Don, except for Roger. Especially Peggy. But then she has looked petty and vindictive recently. That Valentine sl (I didn't realize that Valentine's Day was such a big deal in the 60's, thought it was more of an 80's thing when everyone began spending money like crazy)-- which I disliked immensely-- showed Peggy in a particular bad light.

Don is really attempting to change. I did like the Don/Sally sl last week.
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Dax
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Against Megan - The behavior her agent was describing was really bad.

For Megan... I think she's entirely justified in feeling particularly betrayed by Don here... not telling her about his work suspension... or living with her for months when he could have, then... these are 'big' things well-worth being upset about.
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Dax
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http://www.npr.org/2014/05/01/308608611/mad-men-creator-matthew-weiner-on-the-end-of-don-drapers-journey
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Dax
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Love the look on Don's face as Peggy gives him his assignment. http://previously.tv/mad-men/don-draper-stares-at-peggy-olson-for-a-very-long-time/

Roger story was heartbreaking.

-

Fun comment under Sepinwall's review, from 'Scuba Steve' >> There were a lot of interesting references to Kubrick's The Shining in this episode. On top of the more obvious 2001: A Space Odyssey references.

Don walking into an empty office and hearing distant celebration.

The scene where Roger's secretary is "chased" around a labyrinth by Ellery looking a lot like Danny.

The computer guy being Lloyd. As in Lloyd the bartender who served Jack Torrance.

Don in the office of a guy who killed himself only to have Freddy tell him, just get it over with if you want to kill yourself.

To anyone who has seen the Shining these surely had to resonate.
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bilki
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The Shining is one of my favorites, and I've seen it countless times, but none of those scenes made me think of the film while watching this episode. Reading them makes sense but I still don't see the significance. Is Don supposed to be as crazy as Jack Torrance? It makes me think of those people who still insist Megan is going to be murdered by Charles Manson because of that t-shirt she wore in one episode a long time ago. I wonder what David Chase would think about all of this, lol.

Fun to watch Don fall back into his old habits. There was a part of me that hoped Joan would have spotted him drunk but I was pleased Freddie help him snap out it.

While the story with Roger's daughter felt a little out-of-nowhere, I found it interesting, nonetheless. I really liked what she about it not being hard to walk away from a child, just like Roger had walked away from her when he went to work, and cheated on her mother. So sad. It pained me that her child might grow up without his mother, though I imagine she would return to him when that lifestyle fell out of favor.
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bilki
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Oh, I forgot to mention how much I loved the verbal smackdown Don received when he went to Bert's office.
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tgir
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I like that it is Freddy Rumsen who is helping Don pick up the pieces.

Up to this point, Don's life and Don's success has been built on elaborate lies and half truths, a well constructed, long running ad campaign. A genius ad campaign, yes. None better, but hollow inside. Now, it seems he is perhaps ready to put together a life built more solidly, from the ground (almost) up.

Part that really frustrates me is that Don is no more deserving of a comeuppance than Roger and probably everybody. I don't like how bitter everybody has become. Things may be rolling along at the agency, but they've been rolling along like a joyless, soulless machine: just like the computer. Which, btw, isn't large enough for the day. Don't ask me how I know because it may be that I remember.
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Dax
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I didn't think of any of those things, either... but once pointed out... nah, it's not too much of a stretch to think a show heavy with 2001 references might also sneak in some Shining ones... winks and nods, not on the same level as the Megan/Manson conspiracy-lovers...
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KMInfinity
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This one felt very claustrophobic, I guess intentionally. Almost a 'bottle' episode. I did not pick up on any of the Shining stuff.

>>>>Part that really frustrates me is that Don is no more deserving of a comeuppance than Roger and probably everybody. I don't like how bitter everybody has become. Things may be rolling along at the agency, but they've been rolling along like a joyless, soulless machine: just like the computer.

ITA.

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blosslover
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Roger of course didn't just abandon his daughter for work and his affairs, but also gave up his son with Joan. Even though their child wasn't mentioned, that parallel went through my brain.
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Dax
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Didn't give him up, really... Joan has only invited him to play a tiny part in Kevin's life.
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Krystal
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Most men at that time worked a lot, if they were "successful" and had very little to do with child raising, even if they were a mill worker. Daughter and ex really enjoyed the perks of having a rich hsb/dad. The daughter leaving her child to be a hippie is not the same. She needed to decide to be an earth child prior to having children.

Joan has indeed not let Roger take a larger place in her boy's life.
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tgir
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Roger and his wife were definitely far from ideal parents but were not out of the norm for their day and for their status. I would guess quite a few other well to do families today have a similar hands off style of parenting. And of course, there are the helicopter parents, as a counter point.

Unfortunately, most of the time we don't see the mistakes we are making until they grow up.

Still, Roger's big contribution to his daughter has been money, and she's been quite happy to avail herself of buckets of that and even to use the continuing buckets as blackmail. Mona's holing up in the bathroom with a bottle of gin is probably worse. I would argue that what the daughter is doing is far, far worse as she knows very good and well how bad it is to be or to feel abandoned by your parents and she's willfully doing it to her own kid--to punish her parents.
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Dax
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http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/jon-hamm-cover-million-dollar-arm
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Krystal
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ITA. Hopefully she will figure it out.
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tgir
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Dax
May 6 2014, 01:55 AM
Didn't give him up, really... Joan has only invited him to play a tiny part in Kevin's life.
Yes, but Roger didn't jump in and offer to marry Joan, either. She was in a bit of a predicament: pass the baby off as her husband's or go it completely on her own which would have been a bigger deal re: baby, if he were 'illegitimate' in those days.

If Roger had at any point told Joan he wanted to marry her, I think it would have been entirely different. Always made me sad. I like him with Mona and Roger/Joan. Without a strong woman, he's really a bit of a drifting mess.

I also didn't catch The Shining references, but I haven't seen it since I saw it during its first run in the theaters...
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Marg
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I have not see The Shining so wouldn't pick up on the references to that.

I'm not sure I felt sorry for Roger, considering his own behavior towards his daughter. But there is much sadness there, for both of them. I did have to laugh when he fell in the mud trying to drag his daughter away.

Good for Freddy being there to rescue Don.

Peggy's bitterness is definitely coming through this season. I do understand her attitude towards Don as despite her efforts to work hard and sacrifice for the agency in the past, he did treat her poorly.



Edited by Marg, May 6 2014, 02:46 PM.
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Krystal
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Loved the reference to the Guiding Light..
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KMInfinity
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oh yeah! Forgot that.
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tgir
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OK, that was all a bit horrifying.

I don't really understand the whys/purpose of at least two events.

And it looks like even Betty's consciousness is going to be raised.
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Dax
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>> of at least two events.

Which ones?
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tgir
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The nipple part and the 3 way.

Also, Lou just creeps me out along with Cutler but it's a different kind of horrifying.
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bilki
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Betty vs Sally made me LOL. Mostly because Sally is getting good at putting Betty in her place. I do empathize with those kids, though, because I know what it's like to grow up with that woman.

The ménage scene made me feel like intruder on a private moment I had no desire to see. Was that Megan's way of trying to tempt Don into moving to LA? Her insecurities over Don's attractive "niece" showing up?

I have no idea what was going on with Ginsberg. Computers don't make people lose their minds. Schizophrenia? I don't know if he's in his early 20s but that's often when the condition develops.
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tgir
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I don't know: I think Sally is a spoiled brat. As odd as it is even to me, I have a lot more sympathy for Betty who genuinely is trapped by the gilded cage and by society's expectations of her. She has the respect of no one and is so fragile that even a tiny, tiny unintentional slight, perceived rather than actual, is enough to crash her fragile attempt at being a good, ideal mother. Like Don, she only knows what being a good mother looks like, not how it feels. It is clearly something she's never experienced for herself and indeed, has never been valued for herself, rather than for her appearance. I see her as a tragic figure and am hoping that some bits of light and fresh air are finding their way through the cracks in the facade of her mausoleum house.

Sally is perhaps unattractive to me because she's an adolescent but it seems like she's going to wear that adolescent fake superiority and fake sophistication and fake world weariness to the end of her days.
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Dax
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Ginsberg was definitely 'odd' before the computer showed up, but yes... big escalation. He's very sick.

Megan was 'apologizing' for letting/making Stephanie leave before Don got there, but yeah, weird plan.
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tgir
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Not apologizing so much as attempting to deflect and distract Don. How much do you want to bet that she uses it against Don down the line?
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Dax
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http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture/mad-men-ginsberg-nipple

http://www.vulture.com/2014/05/mad-men-ben-feldman-took-ginsbergs-nipple-as-a-souvenir.html
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Krystal
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Will watch tonight, but in the past I have no sympathy for Betty.
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bilki
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While I'm certainly a fan of Betty as an individual, I think she has used fear and intimidation to control and manipulate her children. They are her little punching bags for whatever pains her emotionally, and they don't have much of anyone to defend themselves from her. Even if Don or Henry stood up for the kids, I think she'd continue to treat them poorly behind closed doors. I'm not saying she intends to treat them poorly but I don't see that she really challenges herself to be better with them. The kids are fully aware of their mistreatment by her, and they know there isn't much they can do about it. So, I'm pleased to see Sally standing up to Betty because it makes me feel as if she's no longer willing to be intimidated by her mother.

Of course, all of this is me projecting my own experience onto television characters.
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