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The Sopranos; All Seasons Discussion
Topic Started: Jul 21 2013, 10:44 PM (2,277 Views)
Dax
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I love that episode. A big favorite.

I loved Season 5 (but then, you know, I did like ALL of them, a lot...). Wheel-spinning? No more or less than before, really... though there are arcs and season-long antagonists of sorts (Livia & Junior in 1, Richie in 2, Ralphie in 3 & 4, but there's other stuff going on there), it's not, you know, a hugely plot-driven-towards-a-climax kind of show all the time...

I like the infusion of new characters in 5, especially Buscemi's Tony B. Christopher and Adriana's story comes to a head. Matthew Weiner comes on board (hired on the merits of his Mad Men pilot spec script)... he's got the credit for episodes 2, 6, 9 (with Winter), and 11 (with Chase, one of the 'dream' episodes that some people tend to hate a lot...).

A lot of good stuff. Tony and Carmela being apart is a different dynamic, and that's explored well, I think.

People had to wait 15 months (no show in 2003) between 4 & 5. That made people grumpy about it right from the start, and they went in negative...
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bilki
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Yeah, I'm curious to see how Tony and Carmella being split will play out. That list I've been referring to has "Test Dream" on its list of Top 10 Episodes, so I'm looking forward to that one.
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Dax
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It's a love-or-hate one. I'm positive on it, but enough weren't that I'm kinda surprised it's in a top 10 (out of 86).
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bilki
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Episode 5.3-Where's Johnny

Enjoying S5, so far. This episode was pretty good.

Funny scene with Junior thinking the episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm was him and Bobby. Sad to see Uncle Junior succumbing to dementia.

Feech vs. Paulie is fun. I don't care much for Paulie at all anymore, so it's nice to have someone be such a thorn in his side.

Good scene with Tony and Janice going at each other over what to do about Uncle Junior. I feel bad for Bobby that Janice got her hooks into him, but even worse for his kids.

Really good scene with Tony and Junior at the end, in which Tony asks Junior why he has to repeat something mean, rather that something nice. When Tony asks him if he loves him, Junior doesn't respond.
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bilki
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Episode 5.11-The Test Dream

That was fun! Cool to see all of the faces from the past!


I'm pretty sure someone important is going to die in the next episode.
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Dax
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And Annette Bening was a fun random surprise.

>> someone important is going to die

Doesn't matter how long ago you might have accepted it as a given... it's just so very sad, how it plays out.
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bilki
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Dax
Nov 7 2013, 01:59 AM
And Annette Bening was a fun random surprise.
She was. My favorite parts of the dream were when they were all at Vesuvio, and when Tony was on the horse in the house talking to Carmella.

Episode 5.12-Long Term Parking

Can't say that I ever cared much for Adriana, but I did feel some sense of sympathy for her with this situation. She was stuck in such a rotten position, and I don't think there was a "right" choice to make. It just wasn't going to end well. What stood out most was that Silvio called her a cunt as he was struggling with her to get her out of the car. I don't know why but I didn't expect him to speak to her with such disrespect. Pretty much why I think most of these characters are such ugly human beings.

With Tony B being one of the few characters I actually like, I hate that he has to be "taken care of." Pleased that Tony didn't let Johnny Sack do the deed, though.

On the wiki page, there is some mention of de Matteo talking about the strong fan reaction to Adriana's death on the DVD. Were most fans pretty upset?
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Dax
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Yeah, Silvio always seemed rather fond of her, too... he LIKED her... it's just... they turn on a dime when somebody turns 'rat'...

I think a lot of people were 'sad' (I liked her, but her fate was SO tightly sealed...), but you know, definitely not shocked. The little narrative tease there with her in the car, driving off, bag beside her... there's a moment of hope there, before... nope.

It's unreasonable to think that Christopher would have made a different choice, but I think people wish he would have.

People were upset at Silvio, both for being the one to do it, and for his calling her a cunt...

Of course, the shooting happening off-screen led to people insisting she was still alive somehow. Uh... no.

I really liked the one earlier this season that explored Tony/Adriana a bit. That was kind of an out-of-the-blue surprise.

I like Tony B.

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bilki
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Yeah, I liked the episode with Tony and Adriana spending some time together. It was like we got to see a different side Adriana that wasn't visible in her awful relationship with Christopher.

Episode 5.13-All Due Respect

This one reminded me of S3, in that the penultimate episode had so much happen that this felt somewhat anti-climatic.

Sad to see Tony B go. Wiki says he wasn't originally intended to die in this season's finale. Is there some reason they decided to kill him off sooner than planned?

Funny awkward scene with Tony seeing the painting at Paulie's home.

Johnny Sack's arrest was a nice surprise.
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Dax
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>> This one reminded me of S3, in that the penultimate episode had so much happen that this felt somewhat anti-climatic.

Yeah, Game of Thrones is following the template set by Sopranos and The Wire, wherein the penultimate episode will often be 'the big one', and the finale more of an epilogue (Sopranos 4 being kind of an exception...).

>> Is there some reason they decided to kill him off sooner than planned?

I think it was just that they felt they'd written themselves into a corner with him, where he couldn't be spared...

>> Johnny Sack's arrest was a nice surprise.

That was where Tony thought they were coming for him, and did a long, long walk in the snow, right?

Season 6 (Part 1... it really feels more right to consider the final nine episodes that comprise 'Part 2' as a seventh season...).

The anti-dream-sequence fans did not care for the saga of Kevin Finnerty, but since you enjoyed The Test Dream so well, I think you'll probably like it.

There is probably too much screentime spent in New Hampshire (a complaint you'll run across a lot), but I get why Chase felt it was thematically important to explore...
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Dax
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Bilki - Where are you in 6?
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bilki
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Funny you should ask. I just finished Episode 2, which I enjoyed quite a bit. As you predicted, I liked the Kevin Finnerty saga. Pleased it looks like it will carry on into the next episode.

Some great work by Edie Falco in that one.

Of course, Janice had to make a big scene when she shows up at the hospital.

Cool to see AJ use "Poor you!" to Meadow. Livia lives on!
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bilki
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Episode 6.3-Mayham

Not as strong as the last episode but another good one.

A good laugh at Tony knocking on the wall in his "dream" while Paulie was in his hospital room talking at him. It's a little funny to me how I used to like Paulie but no I can hardly stand the man. Of course, I loved it when the Colombian drug dealer rammed him in the balls.

Great scene with Carmela having a session with Dr Melfi. It was nice to hear her openly that the lavish gifts may have played a part in why she fell in love with Tony. I love how this show likes to dig deep.

I think I started to feel some sympathy for Silvio having to put up with everyone's bullshit.

So good to see "Tony B" again. Very much enjoyed the final Kevin Finnerty scene.

Didn't care much for the stuff with Christopher and JT Dolan but it was kinda funny when they were trying to explain the movie to the guys.
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Dax
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The sorta-Livia appearance at the end of that was very cool...
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Dax
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HBO is airing a half-hour Gandolfini tribute on Sunday night.
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bilki
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The last episode I watched was 6.13, Soprano Home Movies. Good episode. The Tony/Bobby fight was fun.

I really enjoyed the first 4 episodes of S6. Couldn't wait to watch one after the other. But, my interest started to wane as the season went on. I can't think of anything that stands out as awesome-ness since Tony left the hospital. Maybe I've forgotten something, which is pretty much my point.

I did like Vito's story. My favorite part being that the thrill of his mob life pulled him away from the mundane existence in New Hamp, even though he seemed to be happy with Jim there.
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Dax
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>> 6.13, Soprano Home Movies. Good episode.

Yeah, I like that one a lot... (7.1, if you take '6 Part 2' as its own season).

I like Vito's story, but might agree with those saying we spent rather a lot of screen time on an up-to-then relatively minor character while he was away from the rest of the story canvas. But I did like the way the story was told... He (and, you know, any of the rest of them that want to get 'out', but feel trapped) DID have a choice... you MIGHT be able to get away from it, and survive, and never get caught... but... if you opt to return... that's a dumb choice to make.

Looking at the titles, I don't remember much of what happened in the rest of 6 part 1 besides Vito... I do like Julianna Margulies, but remember she's nowhere as much fun a mistress as Gloria was...

But I think all nine hours (you've got just eight to go...) of 6 part 2 are very strong, really nice curtain calls for most of the cast.

(I did wish there was more of Meadow's story... she kinda gets shafted... oh, going back a season and a half or so... when Finn 'discovered' Vito at the construction site... didn't you think Finn was maybe gonna have an 'accident'?... I remember thinking that was strangely dropped for a long time...)
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bilki
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Yes, it did seem like they were teasing us with something happening to Finn. I think one of my biggest disappointments is how little they've done with Meadow. They set up a nice contrast between Tony's and Meadow's moral compass. It would have been nice if they'd explored that in a compelling manner. Maybe if something had happened to Finn, they could have had Meadow have to face the ugly side of her father.


Stage 5 didn't hold my attention, for the most part. I did enjoy that stuff dealing with Johnny Sack dying. He was one of the few characters I didn't hate. Don't care about Christopher and his movie, even though I did like Tony's realization that Christopher still holds some kind of grudge over the Tony/Adriana affair rumors.

Remember When was better. Really enjoyed Junior's story in this one. Cool to see Ken Leung here. Was his name Miles on LOST? It was great to see Junior back to some form of his old self. I do miss him being in the mix of things. I've disliked how Tony cut Junior out of his life, especially because Junior thought Tony was someone else when he shot him. I really hate Paulie, so I was hoping Tony would kill him out on that boat.
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Dax
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>> Cool to see Ken Leung here. Was his name Miles on LOST?

Yeah. And it was from his work here that he got cast on Lost...

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bilki
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Done.

I didn't care for the cut to black. The tone of the scene was as if they were setting up for something to happen, then black. I knew it was coming but didn't expect it to be so abrupt. I feel like I remember some people saying they thought their cable went out. If I had been watching during the original airing, I probably would have hated it. My friend who finished watching the series last year thinks it's genius.

Pleased we got to see Tony go visit Uncle Junior. I really hated how Tony turned on him after the shooting, though I understand why it happened.

Sad that Bobby Baccalieri was one of the casualties. He was one of the few characters I liked throughout. How awful for his kids to be raised by Janice.

Season 1 was probably my favorite, while season 2 was the one I feel I had the most difficulty getting through. I vote Ralphie as my favorite "villain" because there were times I felt some degree of sympathy for him, even though he was an ugly human being. And, because his phone call to Paulie's mother was so f-ing hilarious.

I really hate that Paulie survived. Disgusting little man.
Edited by bilki, Jan 15 2014, 11:37 PM.
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Dax
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>> My friend who finished watching the series last year thinks it's genius.

I strongly agree with that. I think it's the perfect ending.

>> Pleased we got to see Tony go visit Uncle Junior. I really hated how Tony turned on him after the shooting, though I understand why it happened.

Yeah. If Leotardo's death is the conclusion of the big war arc, the Tony/Junior scene is definitely the series' emotional climax, the story's natural ending... and it nicely parallels that Tony/Livia scene that ended Season 2 (after they were kept apart all season).

>> Sad that Bobby Baccalieri was one of the casualties.

Yeah. I liked him a lot.

>> How awful for his kids to be raised by Janice.

For sure.

Thoughts on the handling of Christopher's death and (really interesting juxtaposition, I thought) AJ's suicide attempt? Loved Gandolfini's work in those episodes...
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bilki
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Those were both good episodes. I knew Christopher was going to die but I didn't know it was going to be at Tony's hand. That shocked me. At that moment, I wondered if anyone was truly safe from Tony's 'bad' side. I guess he was more of a sociopath than I had ever cared to admit. Definitely due to Gandolfini's performance.

I empathized with AJ and his suicide attempt but I think it was more of a kid looking for attention. Funny when Tony told Melfi that the rope was too long because AJ may be too stupid to properly kill himself.

One of the most disturbing images of the series was Tony resting Coco's head on that stone and knocking his teeth out by kicking down on his head. Still makes me cringe to think about it.

I was disappointed Melfi let Tony go as a patient. Hated that she allowed Elliot to persuade her in such a manner.
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Dax
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But at the same time... Tony had pretty good reasons for 'letting Christopher go'... and might NOT have done it, if not for the way the opportunity presented itself...

Loved the stuff with AJ and the fire in the finale.

Yeah, like the terrible 'curb' scene in American History X.

End of Melfi/Tony felt a bit abrupt, but I'm not sure it's NOT a healthy move for her...
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Dax
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/01/david-chase-can-t-escape-the-sopranos-finale.html

I love David Chase.

>> On people’s insistence on recapping television shows: “I don’t get it. I don’t know why you would read that stuff. You would just read what you just saw? That’s one thing. And then the picking apart, like, ‘I really love the way Sally Draper walked from the car to the house.’ Alright, she walked from the car to the house…I guarantee you they just tried to get her from the fucking car to the house.”

He's funny.
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Krystal
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I hated the finale more than anything ever. Really soured me on the show.
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Dax
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I know. And like religious or political debates, it's one of those 'Well, I have to respect your opinion, but--'

Depending on what side of the issue you're on, it's easy to think those that feel differently are silly.

I think 'I didn't like that' is valid, but to hate one scene so much that it soured you on the series... I think that's absolutely ridiculous. Neither of us will ever feel differently about it.

I've got four favorite series finales now, and Sopranos is one of them. (And 6FU, The Shield, and Breaking Bad is new... there's nothing WRONG with the end of The Wire, but I'd categorize it as 'less memorable'...).

Hopeful about Mad Men making it a Top Five.
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Krystal
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ITA Dax. Let's hope re MM. The finale did it for me, I thought the whole last season was losing steam. Although some of the seasons were brilliant. However, I am quick to forget TV series and almost never watch them again. The 2 that I may are BB and may rewatch Deadwood.
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Dax
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The Sopranos wasn't about a great 'plot' (beginning/middle/end, like Breaking Bad was), but I think the character pieces in that final run of nine episodes... definitely some of their BEST work, not the weakest.

I dunno how long I'll live, and now I'm in a 'too much I haven't seen to take the time to re-watch anything' phase, but I really HOPE to re-watch BB and Deadwood, absolutely... awesome, brilliant shows... Seeing them all again would/will be a great experience.
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Dax
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgYwsM5UkXs Fun.
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Dax
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http://www.vox.com/2014/8/27/6006139/did-tony-die-at-the-end-of-the-sopranos

... naturally, followed by... http://www.vulture.com/2014/08/david-chase-statement-response-to-tony-soprano-didnt-die.html

My interpretation of the closing scene has always been '... and nothing happens. Tony's paranoid. This is his life. The end COULD come at any time, but... Member's Only jacket guy does not burst out of the bathroom and fire. Not today. But someday. Any day... it COULD happen...'

... But for six years, I was also hoping that there might someday be a Sopranos follow-up of some kind, and, you know, you'd want Tony alive for that. That hope died with Gandolfini, so it REALLY doesn't MATTER whether or not Tony dies at the end of the finale. I do not want a reunion movie or mini-series WITHOUT Gandolfini in it.

Again, my favorite it's-open-to-interpretation theory about The Sopranos isn't about Tony living or dying, or what happened to the Russian... it's that Paulie (not Ralphie) killed the horse, Pie-O-My.
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