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Doctor Who; All seasons
Topic Started: Sep 2 2012, 11:20 AM (3,342 Views)
blosslover
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KMI did you have any more thoughts about the final two episodes if you had more time to think about them?

Anyway I wanted to post this article with Moff... http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-11-12/we-tried-to-trick-doctor-who-fans-into-thinking-missy-was-the-rani-reveals-steven-moffat
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KMInfinity
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That just proves Moff is all about plotty tricksy crap. :-(

I have moe thoughts but no time to think them thru. :D

Bilki if you get retro TV, they are in the middle of the Pertwee years and every other arc has Delgado. I like him. Retro airs 2 episodes nightly (half hour each)

http://www.myretrotv.com/

http://twidw.doctorwhonews.net/channels.php?code=216&detail=broadcast&start=2014-09-30

I'm excited---The Three Doctors 4 episode arc on Mon-Tues!

At least a month before Baker's Doctor appears. I don't think they are showing every episode - I think some are missing...
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bilki
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Thanks for that link, KMI! Looks like there isn't an affiliate that carries RetroTV here in Columbus, OH. Oh well.

Do you think any of Delgado's Master stories are better than the rest? I found Terror of the Autons on DailyMotion and just finished watching it. I thought the story a bit weak, and the Autons felt insignificant, but I did enjoy Pertwee's Doctor, Jo Grant and Delgado. My biggest complaint would probably be that the Master's motivation for wanting to kill the Doctor seemed to be only because he's E-VOL. That was their first serial together, though, so I'm assuming the rivalry gets 'fleshed out' a bit more in future episodes.

I found The Three Doctors on Netflix, so I'm going to watch that next. I've not seen any of the serials with Hartnell's or Thoughton's Doctors. Autons was the first time I'd seen a full episode with Pertwee.
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blosslover
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Here is the RTV live feed link. http://www.tikilive.com/show/wsfd15 to see what DW is airing...

It doesn't always work, but you could check it out if you were around in the evenings Monday to Friday 8 - 9 pm ET or 6 - 8 ET on Saturdays...
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bilki
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Thanks, BL!

Really enjoyed The Three Doctors. I was a little worried going in because the reviews on its wiki page were mixed, but I ended up watching all 4 episodes in one sitting. The bickering between Two and Three was quite fun. Also liked the Brigadier's confusion over it all, and how Omega's will made a prison for himself. Cool to hear them talk about the First Law of Time because I had wondered about where that'd come from.
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KMInfinity
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>>>>>Do you think any of Delgado's Master stories are better than the rest?

Over all, because of the mix of characters and story, I'd say the Mind of Evil, Colonies in Space, and the Sea Devils. But since the stories are 4-6 episodes long there is always a scene or two that shines somewhere. There isn't really a consensus of 'the best of Delgado' which I think is significant, and lots of folks who agree they're all good or better on some level.

Delgado's master is legendary for being a 'gentlemanly' bad guy. He and Pertwee were great friends and I think I read somewhere that when Delgado died (in a car accident) Pertwee only did one more season and said he just couldn't play the Doctor without Degado opposite him. Maybe apocryphal?? I'll check.

Looking around, I found this. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6-NZCunVVQ&feature=related

I just love his expressive face.

>>>>>My biggest complaint would probably be that the Master's motivation for wanting to kill the Doctor seemed to be only because he's E-VOL.

Yeah, that's going to be consistent, for the most part. There has always been a bit of confusion about The Master, his motivation, his 'frenemy relationship' with The Doctor. Retcons that the show later touches upon include the whole debate about whether The Master is The Doctor's brother. For sure, he's a 'best friend' at the Time Lord Academy. And his insanity is The Doctor's fault, sort of, sometimes, depending on the episode. Great first line in this article.

http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/doctor-who/21086/doctor-who-a-celebration-of-the-master

And reading the article makes it very clear to me why Missy just is a terrible terrible alt-Master.
Edited by KMInfinity, Nov 15 2014, 11:22 AM.
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blosslover
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Here are the full ratings in the UK for DW this series...interesting how the finale had a higher rating, but not as high as the premiere.

The 2014 ratings so far:

Deep Breath 6.8m (overnight) 9.17m (final) 10.76m (L+7) AI 82
Into the Dalek 5.2m (overnight) 7.29m (final) 8.26m (L+7) AI 84
Robot of Sherwood 5.2m (overnight) 7.28m (final) 8.25m (L+7) AI 82
Listen 4.8m (overnight) 7.01m (final) 7.80m (L+7) AI 82
Time Heist 4.93m (overnight) 6.99m (final) AI 84
The Caretaker 4.89m (overnight) 6.82m (final) AI 83
Kill the Moon 4.81m (overnight) 6.91m (final) AI 82
Mummy on the Orient Express 5.08m (overnight) 7.11m (final) AI 85
Flatline 4.6m (overnight) 6.71m (final) AI 85
In the Forest of the Night 5.03m (overnight) 6.92m (final) AI 83
Dark Water 5.27m (overnight) 7.34m (final) AI 85
Death in Heaven 5.45m (overnight) 7.60m (final) AI 83

Also to add: Here are the US ratings for the Doctor Who series 8 finale... 18-49...and what the ratings looked like for Capaldi's first episode...

DOCTOR WHO SEASON 8 BBCA 9:00 PM 1102 (live same day - add 000) 0.4 (FINALE)
DOCTOR WHO SEASON 8 BBCA 8:15 PM 2189 (live same day - add 000) 0.9 (Capaldi's 1st Full episode)
Edited by blosslover, Nov 16 2014, 09:52 PM.
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bilki
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Looks like the numbers took a good hit after Listen. I enjoyed the season but can't think of one episode that stands out as one I'd want to watch again. If it weren't for how much I like Capaldi, I might of not watched every episode of the season.

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And reading the article makes it very clear to me why Missy just is a terrible terrible alt-Master.
Michelle Gomez's performance is what saves it for me. She's fun to watch and has a good chemistry with Capaldi. But even though I've only seen one serial with Delgado's Master, I still don't see why she is the Master. Other than the fact that she told us that's who she is, I don't see any kind of satisfying connection. On the bright side, though, the reveal that she's the Master has gotten me in the mood to watch Classic Who.


Spearhead From Space is on NetFlix, and on a number of the Best-Classic-Who lists, so I've watched that one next. Enjoyed Three's introduction, and I'm becoming a big fan of the Brigadier. Liz Shaw was fun, too. The Autons got to do a lot more than in Terror of the Autons but I got slightly bored in the middle until the action started picking up at the end of episode 3. I loved that the Doctors cape was something he'd taken/stolen from the hospital.
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bilki
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Just got a free trial for Hulu Plus. When I went to see what Classic Who episodes they have, to my surprise I found An Unearthly Child! Really enjoyed the first episode. A nice set up. Then they totally lost my attention with those silly primitive people and their quest for fire. I skipped EP3 and through EP4 until the Doctor and his companions race to the TARDIS and land on the next planet.

There's a lot more Classic Who on Hulu Plus than NetFlix. I'm excited to watch the first story featuring the Daleks!
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KMInfinity
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>>>>>The Autons got to do a lot more than in Terror of the Autons but I got slightly bored in the middle
>>>>>Then they totally lost my attention with those silly primitive people and their quest for fire.

This is why fast forward is needed when watching old-Who. :firemad: I fast forward quite a bit.
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bilki
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KMInfinity
Nov 17 2014, 09:07 PM
This is why fast forward is needed when watching old-Who. :firemad: I fast forward quite a bit.
That's funny because I've been telling myself you're dedicated enough to watch each episode from start to finish, which gives me pangs of guilt. It's a relief knowing you skip stuff, too, lol.

The Daleks is off to a good start. I'm about half way through EP3, but being that it's 7 episodes I'll probably get restless at some point.

I warmed to Pertwee immediately but it's taking me a bit longer with Hartnell. I'm guessing it's because I'm so used to quick and witty Doctors, and Hartnell has a different kind of delivery.
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KMInfinity
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>>>>>I warmed to Pertwee immediately but it's taking me a bit longer with Hartnell.

Did you see "Adventure in Time and Space" ? If not, that might help set the tone. It's excellent. David Bradley is terrific. http://www.bbcamerica.com/doctor-who/guide/50th-specials/an-adventure-in-space-and-time/
Edited by KMInfinity, Nov 18 2014, 09:17 PM.
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blosslover
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I watched some of The 3 Doctors on RTV the last couple of days. Sometimes I wish they would do supercuts of the classic shows. I saw the first episode on RTV and love it then got bored...as the serial continued. The weekend showing on RTV is the gunfighters, which is the strangest thing. I can totally understand why Barrowman would talk about it the way he did in the 1st Doctor special last year.

I think the first Pertwee story was extremely good as an introduction and found him likable from the start. Perhaps part of it was how I could parse things out that reminded me of modern Who.
Edited by blosslover, Nov 19 2014, 12:06 AM.
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bilki
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The Three Doctors has been my favorite serial of all the Classic Who I've watched over the past week and a half. Mostly because I enjoyed the interactions between Two, Three and the Brigadier. I can see how it would get a bit boring, though, and Omega's story might seem silly.


Quote:
 
Did you see "Adventure in Time and Space" ? If not, that might help set the tone. It's excellent. David Bradley is terrific.
Were they airing that last year around the time of the Christmas Special? I feel like I may have watched parts of it because I'd not ever seen Hartnell before.


The Daleks was mostly good. It held my full attention through the first 4 episodes, but by the middle of episode 6 I was ready to skip to the end of 7. I ended up just reading the recap for the final episodes on TARDIS wiki and called it a day. I'm curious about The Edge of Destruction because it's just 2 episodes that take place inside the TARDIS.
Edited by bilki, Nov 19 2014, 11:55 AM.
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KMInfinity
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>>>>>"Adventure in Time and Space"-----Were they airing that last year around the time of the Christmas Special?

It aired the week before the 50th Anniversary special I think.

>>>>>The weekend showing on RTV is the gunfighters...

The Okay Corral story? That was w-e-i-r-d and didn't feel like Who at all.
Edited by KMInfinity, Nov 19 2014, 09:47 PM.
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blosslover
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Yes it aired at the 50th time, and then again around Christmas.

Exactly, it felt like some weird bad historical wild west movie...(The Gunfighters)
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KMInfinity
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The Sarah Jane arc began on Retro last week. Really enjoying her a lot with Pertwee. I think he regenerates this week.
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bilki
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I know I've mentioned before how much I love Sarah Jane, so I watched her first serial last week. Enjoyed it quite a bit, maybe even more than I expected. I'll give Linx some credit, too. He was a fun villain.

I tried to watch Pertwee's final serial but skipped through most of it after EP2. Actually, I skipped right to the end to watch the regeneration.

I've been taking a little break but may start watching again soon at the beginning of Tom Baker's run. Those are the stories I remember from when I was a kid.
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blosslover
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Shoot due to the holidays I haven't been seeing the Retro episodes and, but good to know about Lis Sladen's stuff being on as I do want to see that.
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KMInfinity
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I adored "Last Christmas." I know there will be a LOT of nit-pickers and people pointing out all of the dreamy-weamy mess, but there were so many good lines and character moments I was enchanted. Plus I love all of those 'reality is in doubt' plots, so for me that's a big win.


http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/doctor-who-2014-christmas-special/

I hope he's right about Shona - loved her. More after I surf the hoi-polloi views.

(Retro update - still getting used to Tom Baker. I know he's iconic, but I am finding him more buffoonish than I expected, more like #2, who is the one I liked least of the three early Doctors. I adore Sarah Jane and her chutzpah. She is SO young. The writing is still very comic bookish. I am currently in E2 of genesis of the Daleks, a seminal series, and not sure what to think. Davros is a serous let-down so far.)
Edited by KMInfinity, Dec 26 2014, 09:10 PM.
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blosslover
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I thought Last Christmas was entertaining, but a mixture of Amy's Choice and the beetle that Donna had to deal with that created another universe. The quips though were very amusing.

Again I liked the guest people, that was interesting in this series that a lot of the guest people I could see as future companions. Maybe they were testing in case Jenna decided to leave...

I think that's interesting about Tom Baker....due to issues with my RTV (local sports preemptions, I've been missing a lot of episodes, so I'm rather confused...on the weekend RTV I missed Hartnell becoming Troughton due to going out for my birthday... When I saw the one BBCAmerica Tom Baker episode, my feeling was great love for Lis Sladen, and Baker was just okay...It takes time for him to get into the part, and I think if one really likes Pertwee it is harder.)
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KMInfinity
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>>>>>a mixture of Amy's Choice and the beetle that Donna had to deal with that created another universe.
A lot of the people being negative are complaining it was a ripoff of Inception, and I just laugh at that....as if Inception invented the 'reality is in doubt' plot. One reason I like the episode so much is that I do enjoy those kinds of plots when they are well executed, and i think Moffat did well. Other people are miffed that Clara isn't gone, which is unfair to the actual episode.

But most of the critics and fans loved it, and the general feeling is this is the best Christmas episode...or #2 or #3 after Tennant's Christmas Invasion and Matt's Christmas Carol.


>>>>>Again I liked the guest people, that was interesting in this series that a lot of the guest people I could see as future companions. Maybe they were testing in case Jenna decided to leave...

There's a rumor that Coleman wasn't sure she'd resign so they filmed two endings and we saw both since she decided to stay, and the guests were possible new companions.
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blosslover
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For some Inception may have...I agree with you that the movie wasn't the creator of that idea. Clara leaving or not leaving shouldn't influence the like of the episode. I do think it is the best one in years...last year's I didn't like...

I would love it though if they would have two companions in the TARDIS again that were just friends and not love interests. That would be fun, as DW hasn't done that in years.
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KMInfinity
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One thing I liked is that the episode seemed to resolve the tension between The Doctor and Clara. The lies are out in the open, her residual 'mourning' for Eleven is done, they seem to have a connection again. Capaldi's Doctor WANTS her along, instead of sort of grudgingly expecting her along, and she admits she has feelings for him 'like for Santa' so that ends the flirty hints. And most importantly, according to most Clara haters, there wasn't all of the "STOP THAT" and bossy Clara where she seemed to know more than him, be more the center than him.

So the readjustment of their dynamic could be a great thing.

At least she isn't as boring as I thought she was when she was The Impossible Girl with Matt.

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bilki
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It was fun. Probably the one Christmas special I've liked most, that I can remember. I'm a big fan of bickering/banter, most of the time, so the back-and-forth between the Doctor and Santa made me chuckle.

Also a fan of dreamy-weamy stuff, and this was no exception. The dream-within-a-dream nature of it was probably the main reason I liked it as much as I did. I can see the comparisons to Inception but this didn't feel like a "rip off" to me.

I was a little disappointed in the ending, mostly because I was looking forward to a new companion. But Clara has grown on me enough that I'm not pissed about it.


In regards to Tom Baker, it makes sense that you're still adjusting to him, KMI, especially because you've got so many other Doctors to compare him against. I really like Pertwee, and could see myself having trouble with Tom Baker if I had met Pertwee first. I wonder, though, if what you see as buffoon-ish I see as more of a playful quality.

How far off is "City of Angels" on RTV? I've read so many positive things about that one, and now I see that it was written by Douglas Adams. I'm currently reading The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which I'm enjoying.
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KMInfinity
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>>>In regards to Tom Baker, it makes sense that you're still adjusting to him, KMI, especially because you've got so many other Doctors to compare him against. I really like Pertwee, and could see myself having trouble with Tom Baker if I had met Pertwee first. I wonder, though, if what you see as buffoon-ish I see as more of a playful quality.

Slowly adjusting. He DOES seem to have a good range, so his 'playfulness' will be balanced with a steelier side, which I will appreciate once I get used to him. He was great in Genesis of the Daleks, especially the Shakespearean 'aside/monologue' where he's debating the justification for committing genocide to destroy the newly created daleks. So many stories are starting to resonate with what comes later... <3

I gotta say the iconic scarf is driving me crazy! It's so....THERE. and sometimes IN THE WAY...

>>>>>How far off is "City of Angels" on RTV? I've read so many positive things about that one, and now I see that it was written by Douglas Adams. I'm currently reading The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which I'm enjoying.

We have appx five weeks to "Pirate Planet" (which he wrote) but probably at least 4 months until season 17 when he was the showrunner for Bake's final season. that's tthe season with City of Death and Sharda.
(I didn't know this, had to look it up in my who-links folder... B-) )

Baker 4's run:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/index_fourth.shtml
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KMInfinity
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Well, I am sorry to report that Baker will NOT be one of my favorite doctors. (#4 regenerated in the Logopolis arc this week and now I get to check out Davison.) I was hoping I'd warm up to him, because it would have made my life easier if I, for once, ran with the big crowd but nope. I prefer #3. And even #2 and #1, especially in terms of storytelling.

I do know have a stronger understanding of what old-school Whovians are talking about when the are discussing what they view as a shift in the stories/styles. Me, I personally like even Matt's Doctor #11 better than Baker's #5, which means my list has him iat the bottom and I haven't even seen 5-6-7 (and need to rewatch 8's movie).

#10
#9
#3 (Capaldi still on trial, could be near to top...maybe not)
#11
#1
#2
#4


It is good that I can see how some of these stories and companions fit into the greater picture, but overall I found the plots really really silly, and Baker really really annoying.
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bilki
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Blasphemy!!!

:D
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KMInfinity
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I know, right?

:ermm:

:firemad:
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bilki
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I do wonder if you'd have a different opinion of Tom Baker's Doctor if you'd watched him back in the 80s, a time when we were more accepting of a lot of silliness that wouldn't pass with today's audiences. And after you hear about how loved something or someone is for so long, it can be difficult for you own opinion not to be tainted.

But I'm not making excuses, or anything.
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