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Doctor Who; All seasons
Topic Started: Sep 2 2012, 11:20 AM (3,311 Views)
KMInfinity
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I've been avoiding the fan sites because I'm hearing a LOT of griping and I wanted to form my own impressions. I'm going to wade in this weekend and take the pulse of Who-dom this weekend. :scared:
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bilki
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I'm going to wade in this weekend and take the pulse of Who-dom this weekend. :scared:
How did that go? I read a decent amount of comments at the UK site, The Guardian. Mostly positive comments about Peter Capaldi but the comments about the episodes have plenty of love and hate to go around. The comments about the episodes over at AV Club seem to be kinder, though I don't read as much of them.


Mixed feelings about Kill the Moon. They really had me going for a minute there. I thought Clara was going to have to make a tough decision and live with the harsh reality of it. Then she aborts the detonation, the creature flies away and leaves another egg/moon (bigger than its own body) in its place. Ugh.

Really enjoyed Hermione Norris as the lady astronaut. I would have pushed the button, too.

A little disappointed that they didn't do anything original with Courtney Woods.

Jenna Coleman did a good job with the outburst at the end, but I thought Clara was behaving like a petulant child. The scene pretty much salvaged the episode for me, though. It's nice to see the show play out some of the emotional consequences of their journeys after so many wasted opportunities during the Amy/Rory era.
Edited by bilki, Oct 6 2014, 10:14 PM.
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blosslover
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I appreciated that Clara got upset over everything as it was about time. That said it is too bad that Amy and Rory didn't get to do that. Some people were upset by Kill the Moon as they saw it as a pro-life story. (Like bilki, I'd like to know what you found KMI...)
Edited by blosslover, Oct 7 2014, 10:28 AM.
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KMInfinity
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Sadly, I'm still overwhelmed at work. Maybe this weekend I'll surf the Whoverse.

I wasn't too happy with the episode. I'm starting to dislike Dr. 12 and I can't figure out if it's Capaldi or the writing. I'm pretty sure it's the writing because the big thing that's pissing me off if that he seems to have no clue about people or empathy for humans, as if he's become autistic or something. Some doctors have been less cuddly than others, and some downright meanish, but the overall arc in Nu-Who has been for an empathetic figure so to me this is a regression which doesn't make sense. So unless that plays into his long term arc as some kind of trauma due to his last regeneration, I'm gonna say they are creating false character development (and drama) with bad writing.
Edited by KMInfinity, Oct 7 2014, 07:54 PM.
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bilki
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12 is definitely a less cuddly Doctor. I've a bit surprised at some of the things he's said to Clara and Courtney. I like him, but I can see why some wouldn't. How would we determine if it's a regression, though? I don't know a lot about the past Doctors but my perception is that he hasn't evolved in a linear manner. Have they ever explained why one is different from the others?


Enjoyed Mummy on the Orient Express but my initial impression is that others enjoyed it more than me. The mummy was cool but I can't say that it scared me. And it's usually difficult for me to feel much of anything for the death of a character I barely know. All of those deaths, though, made me think we were going to get a visit from Missy.

I still don't understand why the mummy was killing his victims, or maybe I do and it's just not that compelling to me.

If I ever thought Capaldi's Doctor would be the end of any sexual tension with Clara, they certainly proved me wrong. It was more obvious in this episode than it has been up to this point.

While Clara has certainly grown on me, I was ready for Perkins, the engineer guy, to step in and take her place.
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blosslover
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It had to do with the mummy being a soldier. He stopped once the Doctor said I surrender. The space train reminded me of the space Titanic.

Perkins the engineer guy is a huge Doctor Who superfan IRL named Frank Skinner. He has been campaigning to be on the show for years. During the DW bonus feature for the episode, he said he wished they had let him say he wanted to stay....I would have liked that for a change.

The one thing I've noticed a tad from some factions of the DW fandom (not that I see much) is that there are some who LOVE everything and are almost too positive...(same with soap fans still don't get it...)
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KMInfinity
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really loved this one. I thought it showcased so many 'tru-Who' themes and stories. I loved the kids too. It was a good teacher type episode and one I might show my class.
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bilki
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Oh gosh. I'm about halfway through and trying to decide if I should just skip the rest of it. The review and comments at The Guardian aren't helping.

I do like the idea of the trees taking over, though. Just not how they're putting it to use.
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KMInfinity
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It's very uneven. Capaldi has moments of real power, and I've never liked Clara as much as I have lately, and I even like Danny, and like some of what's going on there, but somehow the sum of the parts is less than the whole instead of jelling and being something greater than the parts, if you know what I mean.

I blame the overall arc planning and vision (which must rest with Moffat) and the individual writers.

ETA:

I have finally been checking out some of the season's reviews and they are generally very good at the AV Club and DenofGeek. The Nerdist has been generally positive. IGN has rated every episode Good/Great/Amazing except the Robin Hood one. Rotten Tomatoes has the overall season at 91%. Gallifrey Base, which has been a hotbed of fandom interaction, and known for rather snarky criticism and quite a lot of negativity, has overall loved Capaldi's doc. This last episode is seen as the weakest of the strongest season in years. ( :ermm: )

I haven't been to the Guardian, or the Telegraph. What's the buzz there? And your own thoughts, please!
Edited by KMInfinity, Oct 26 2014, 08:40 PM.
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bilki
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The reviews for the episodes have been relatively positive at The Guardian. He liked the set up for this forest episode but said he was grumpy by the end of it. He doesn't like Danny Pink and isn't sure someone like Clara would fall for a guy like him.

The comments at The Guardian, on the other hand, haven't been as kind. Every episode is deemed one of the worst, and then they all argue back and forth about it. Most seem to like Capaldi, though.

I'm starting to lean towards being less of a fan of Danny Pink, myself. I think his good looks charmed me at first but now that's wearing off. I was hoping he'd be more of an adventurous type, but now that we're getting to know him more, I find him to be a bit of a bore.

Most of my excitement about Missy has worn off, at this point. I really hope she'll be worth the wait but I know that some of Moffat's payoffs aren't as satisfying as the anticipation.

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but somehow the sum of the parts is less than the whole instead of jelling and being something greater than the parts, if you know what I mean.
I think I do. I'm starting to feel like this season will look less interesting in hindsight. On the bright side, at least they were able to hold my interest for its entirety.
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blosslover
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The part with the wolves and the tiger was weird...as really would Danny take the kids to confront the tiger. That was ridiculous as no teacher would do that.

I do think that Danny is written as controlling, and I don't like that. The best thing about him is how BBCAmerica misunderstood a Danny line in one episode and people thought he called Clara a b#tch but he said bench. It was got our bench...but captions said what up b#tch...

I thought this episode was a bit weak due to the inclusion of the kids and how London was treated. If it was a class trip, then there would have been parents and the like not just two teachers. They were in Trafalgar Square, which became a forest, and they were the only ones there. That makes no sense...

It is also like the issue I had with Mummy on the Orient Express, as where were the female scientists...
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bilki
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They were in Trafalgar Square, which became a forest, and they were the only ones there. That makes no sense...
That was one of the first things that annoyed me. Where were all the people? No one was out in a panic?
And, what was up with the sister showing up at the end? I had no idea what that had to do with the forest protecting the planet from the solar flare.
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KMInfinity
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I like that Danny has all of these issues from his past (PTSD?) and loved his convo with Clara about why he doesn't want to trust the Doctor, or travel to see 'wonders.' I also like the way they're weaving his timeline in as a boy and his descendants. That said, I do think he's a bit of a grumpus, and controlling, and not Clara's type at all. I'm hoping there's payoff relative to that somewhere down the road.

I agree they needed a throwaway 'handwavy' explanation for why everyone was MIA. Even a quick statement that everyone was ordered indoors in case the plants were poisonous. Anything.

>>>>>And, what was up with the sister showing up at the end? I had no idea what that had to do with the forest protecting the planet from the solar flare.
yes, very lame. But the reason I've read is that hearing Maebh's voice on the world wide phone call inspired the sister to come home.

>>>>>If it was a class trip, then there would have been parents and the like not just two teachers.
HAHAHAHA! I'm taking 22 kids on a field trip tomorrow with another teacher. No parents.

here
http://thefrickpittsburgh.org/about/restoration.php
and here...
http://www.pittsburghtours.org/Carrie-Blast-Furnace.html
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blosslover
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I liked to think that the sister was held hostage by the fairies that were in that Torchwood episode. It makes no sense, but whatever.

I read Digital Spy and their forums have mixed opinions on DW this series. That said this last episode wasn't as popular...

Doctorwhotv.co.uk has a weekly poll on each episode out of 10...(this doesn't include this week's episode) & isn't for spoiler avoiders...

Listen – 8.918
Flatline – 8.774
Mummy on the Orient Express - 8.679
Deep Breath – 8.282
Into the Dalek – 8.052
Time Heist - 7.823
Kill the Moon – 7.808
The Caretaker - 7.795
Robot of Sherwood – 7.512

Link to UK ratings etc...

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/doctor-who-series-8-ratings-accumulator-66394.htm

Deep Breath 6.8m (overnight) 9.17m (final) 10.76m (L+7) AI 82
Into the Dalek 5.2m (overnight) 7.29m (final) 8.26m (L+7) AI 84
Robot of Sherwood 5.2m (overnight) 7.28m (final) 8.25m (L+7) AI 82
Listen 4.8m (overnight) 7.01m (final) 7.80m (L+7) AI 82
Time Heist 4.93m (overnight) 6.99m (final) AI 84
The Caretaker 4.89m (overnight) 6.82m (final) AI 83
Kill the Moon 4.81m (overnight) 6.91m (final) AI 82
Mummy on the Orient Express 5.08m (overnight) 7.11m (final) AI 85
Flatline 4.6m (overnight) 6.71m (final) AI 85
In the Forest of the Night 5.03m (overnight) TBCm (final) AI 83

(iPlayer figures are not included in the ‘final’ figure)
(Live Plus 7 (L+7) counts those who watched live and all repeats, including iPlayer, within seven days following broadcast.)
(The Audience Appreciation Index (AI) is a score out of 100 which is used as an indicator of the public’s appreciation for a show.)
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blosslover
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Really it must depend on the age of the students and the district regarding field trips (even the state). It isn't an overnight event though?

Maebh's phone call reaching everyone was farfetched....I handwaved the sister coming home as the invisible beings had her hostage, but returned her no harm no foul..as they looked like fireflies...
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blosslover
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Prelim ratings from the UK plus last week's full ratings:

In the Forest of the Night 5.03m (overnight) 6.92m (final) AI 83
Dark Water 5.27m (overnight) TBCm (final) AI TBC

Okay so Moff strikes again. I love that in an interview he says Missy is not a particular character and then Missy is that character. WHAT? I'm sorry, can he just say I'm not discussing spoilers, by doing that I just get annoyed.

Otherwise I wish they had not spoiled certain things in the promos/pictures for adverts as that ruined the surprise of the cybermen.

My favorite line had to do with the hitting with a shoe comment as I say that. Humorous to me that people on the other side of the pond also say that.
Edited by blosslover, Nov 2 2014, 12:45 PM.
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bilki
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Somebody call the WAH-bulance! I forgot to record the episode, so I'll have to wait until after it re-airs next week.

Were you pleased and disappointed, BL?
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blosslover
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Bilki programming note for you: due to BBCAmerica adding Sherlock reruns, Dark Water will be on at 6 PM ET instead of right before the series 8 finale. (I wish you got BBCAmerica on demand so we could discuss it.)

I was thinking the chemistry is not what it should/could have been...and now Capaldi had to do those kind of scenes...
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KMInfinity
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I was majorly disappointed. I'll reserve judgment because sometimes a two parter finishes so much stronger but I actually disliked much of it a lot.

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KMInfinity
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PS

I have been really enjoying Pertwee's #3 on Retro TV. Some of it is silly and some of it is just bad 70's TV, but yet, it seems to be 'more than its parts' which is a problem this season imo. Dr. Bond style action adventure, snarky, clueless but dependable and lovable Brigadier, annoying but true-hearted Jo... And Delgado! whew...
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blosslover
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My local Retro TV feed sometimes pre-empts DW during the week for events, so it makes it hard to watch. Once on the Saturday omnibus they also had some sports on instead. I try to watch when I can though, they are still showing Hartnell episodes on Saturday, but I've seen a few of the Pertwees skipping back and forth. I like the Bond like adventure aspect..

BTW did you see Sean Pertwee as his Dad's Doctor for Halloween? It was priceless...

I feel the same way about not knowing exactly what I thought about the episode without the context of the remainder of the story.
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KMInfinity
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Didn't see Sean Pertwee. Was it a news item?
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blosslover
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It wasn't a true news item...it was on social media. Here is a copy that was on imgur.com if it doesn't work let me know. http://i.imgur.com/HEcUiOK.jpg

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KMInfinity
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Cool! He looks like his dad.
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bilki
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Watched Dark Water this morning. I kept thinking it would have been a better story for Amy and Rory, a couple I actually cared about. Clara has grown on me this season but I still don't understand why she loves Danny Pink so much, unless it's just that she's such a control freak that she wasn't willing accept him being dead. I laughed under my breath at all of their big dramatic scenes with the melodramatic music playing in the background.

I like the actress playing Missy but I don't know much about the Master. I vaguely recall one storyline with Tom Baker taking on the Master, but I do remember it wasn't a favorite.

The scene in which Danny first meets Seb made me chuckle.

Mixed feelings about seeing the Cybermen. They were one of my favorite villains of the Tom Baker years that I've seen, but I still hate that they were defeated by a crying baby in Closing Time.
Edited by bilki, Nov 9 2014, 06:54 PM.
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KMInfinity
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Hurry and watch Part II Bilki!

I am still sorting thru my thoughts. Generally, I am displeased. While there are several things I liked about the finale, there are just as many things I dislike. I am finally committed to the POV that I want Moffat gone. I've done quite a bit more reading on Gallifrey Base, P-TV, and some other sites and it's clear to me that, while every showrunner and writer has flaws, Moffat's particular 'brand' of flaws are those I find especially irksome and RTD's flaws I find easily forgiveable.

There's a great thread analyzing RTD and Moff on Previously TV. I think I agree with the camp that thinks the best combo was Moff writing and RTD Showrunning. Each gets in trouble when they're running their own scripts. They are NOT Mr. Whedon.

There's also some great analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the Capaldi S1.

There's a post that captures almost exactly my thoughts on the finale, so I'm letting it incubate to see if I have anything to add or twist. It's here:
http://forums.previously.tv/topic/17763-s08e12-death-in-heaven/
(companionenvy's post)

PTV review of the season here:
http://previously.tv/doctor-who/the-dysfunction-of-three/

"A bit more show, or a bit more tell. Either one, I don't care." Yes!
Edited by KMInfinity, Nov 9 2014, 09:48 PM.
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bilki
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I've been posting a little bit over at PreviouslyTV but haven't ventured into their Doctor Who forum. I'll have to give that RTD/Moff thread a look.

I almost feel like I enjoyed Dark Water more than Death In Heaven. The Cybermen didn't really get to do anything all that cool in the finale, and I found most of the Danny/Clara moments to be groan-worthy.

Really enjoyed Michelle Gomez, and I loved that the Master amassed the army of Cybermen so that the Doctor could "fix" all of the wrongs in the universe. Her speech there was probably my favorite moment of the episode.

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Moffat's particular 'brand' of flaws are those I find especially irksome and RTD's flaws I find easily forgiveable.
I saw someone else commenting that RTD could make you care about the characters along the way, though his endings weren't much better than Moffat's.
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blosslover
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This article mentions the idea that this finale was in honor of the 100th anniversary of WWI. That was supposed to be a tribute, I'm a bit horrified. http://slouching.tv/2014/11/08/doctor-who-s8-ep12-death-in-heaven/

For me Missy being the Master made me think what is up with the snogging. It isn't as if any of the male Masters kissed the Doctor...That said why didn't the Doctor know Missy was a time lord from the moment they met even if he didn't realize which one.

This article about the finale from Kasterborous hits a lot of elements of what was wrong with the episode...
http://www.kasterborous.com/2014/11/death-heaven-silver-lining/ They also have page that has links to all the major press on the finale. http://www.kasterborous.com/2014/11/press-thought-death-heaven-reviews-roundup/

Osgood being the surrogate of the audience and then she's killed. I'm hoping it was the Zygon version or something, just because I like the character. Not because I am big on the idea that characters come back from the dead. The material with the Brig...OMH that was disturbing...if that was the intention fine. If not, offensive. The idea that everyone would become cybermen made zero sense as there is no way that everyone in a cemetery was not cremated. And how much DNA is needed, as truly then couldn't random hair samples of living people somehow become cybermen. Again this made no sense...

With RTD versus Moffat, I think that is how I see it too. RTD's flaws I can relate to, while Moffat's I can't ignore. Perhaps part of it is that Moffat sees the Doctor as less than he is...


BL (who is laughing that my computer thinks snogging isn't a word...this is a DW thread, so of course it is one and it is spelled correctly.)
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bilki
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For as much as I enjoyed Michelle Gomez, the kissing bothered me, too. I recognize that the Master is now in a female body but from what I've read (I spent about a half-hour reading around about the Master yesterday) there wasn't anything remotely romantic in their past. I still remember Missy calling the Doctor her boyfriend in her first appearance. At least if she'd been the Rani it would have made sense. I also thought some of her dialogue was a bit silly for an intelligent Time Lord.

Do you know of anywhere to watch Delgado's original incarnation of the Master, BL? I'm curious about him now. I know some of the early series can be hard to find.
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blosslover
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If you have Netflix, some Master episodes are posted there. There are feeds that are live of RTV, but they can be hit or miss. Otherwise you need to just type in a title and hope you can find something. =)
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