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Doctor Who; All seasons
Topic Started: Sep 2 2012, 11:20 AM (3,286 Views)
KMInfinity
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I've been avoiding the fan sites because I'm hearing a LOT of griping and I wanted to form my own impressions. I'm going to wade in this weekend and take the pulse of Who-dom this weekend. :scared:
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KMInfinity
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Sadly, I'm still overwhelmed at work. Maybe this weekend I'll surf the Whoverse.

I wasn't too happy with the episode. I'm starting to dislike Dr. 12 and I can't figure out if it's Capaldi or the writing. I'm pretty sure it's the writing because the big thing that's pissing me off if that he seems to have no clue about people or empathy for humans, as if he's become autistic or something. Some doctors have been less cuddly than others, and some downright meanish, but the overall arc in Nu-Who has been for an empathetic figure so to me this is a regression which doesn't make sense. So unless that plays into his long term arc as some kind of trauma due to his last regeneration, I'm gonna say they are creating false character development (and drama) with bad writing.
Edited by KMInfinity, Oct 7 2014, 07:54 PM.
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KMInfinity
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really loved this one. I thought it showcased so many 'tru-Who' themes and stories. I loved the kids too. It was a good teacher type episode and one I might show my class.
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KMInfinity
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It's very uneven. Capaldi has moments of real power, and I've never liked Clara as much as I have lately, and I even like Danny, and like some of what's going on there, but somehow the sum of the parts is less than the whole instead of jelling and being something greater than the parts, if you know what I mean.

I blame the overall arc planning and vision (which must rest with Moffat) and the individual writers.

ETA:

I have finally been checking out some of the season's reviews and they are generally very good at the AV Club and DenofGeek. The Nerdist has been generally positive. IGN has rated every episode Good/Great/Amazing except the Robin Hood one. Rotten Tomatoes has the overall season at 91%. Gallifrey Base, which has been a hotbed of fandom interaction, and known for rather snarky criticism and quite a lot of negativity, has overall loved Capaldi's doc. This last episode is seen as the weakest of the strongest season in years. ( :ermm: )

I haven't been to the Guardian, or the Telegraph. What's the buzz there? And your own thoughts, please!
Edited by KMInfinity, Oct 26 2014, 08:40 PM.
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KMInfinity
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I like that Danny has all of these issues from his past (PTSD?) and loved his convo with Clara about why he doesn't want to trust the Doctor, or travel to see 'wonders.' I also like the way they're weaving his timeline in as a boy and his descendants. That said, I do think he's a bit of a grumpus, and controlling, and not Clara's type at all. I'm hoping there's payoff relative to that somewhere down the road.

I agree they needed a throwaway 'handwavy' explanation for why everyone was MIA. Even a quick statement that everyone was ordered indoors in case the plants were poisonous. Anything.

>>>>>And, what was up with the sister showing up at the end? I had no idea what that had to do with the forest protecting the planet from the solar flare.
yes, very lame. But the reason I've read is that hearing Maebh's voice on the world wide phone call inspired the sister to come home.

>>>>>If it was a class trip, then there would have been parents and the like not just two teachers.
HAHAHAHA! I'm taking 22 kids on a field trip tomorrow with another teacher. No parents.

here
http://thefrickpittsburgh.org/about/restoration.php
and here...
http://www.pittsburghtours.org/Carrie-Blast-Furnace.html
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KMInfinity
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I was majorly disappointed. I'll reserve judgment because sometimes a two parter finishes so much stronger but I actually disliked much of it a lot.

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KMInfinity
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PS

I have been really enjoying Pertwee's #3 on Retro TV. Some of it is silly and some of it is just bad 70's TV, but yet, it seems to be 'more than its parts' which is a problem this season imo. Dr. Bond style action adventure, snarky, clueless but dependable and lovable Brigadier, annoying but true-hearted Jo... And Delgado! whew...
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KMInfinity
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Didn't see Sean Pertwee. Was it a news item?
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KMInfinity
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Cool! He looks like his dad.
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KMInfinity
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Hurry and watch Part II Bilki!

I am still sorting thru my thoughts. Generally, I am displeased. While there are several things I liked about the finale, there are just as many things I dislike. I am finally committed to the POV that I want Moffat gone. I've done quite a bit more reading on Gallifrey Base, P-TV, and some other sites and it's clear to me that, while every showrunner and writer has flaws, Moffat's particular 'brand' of flaws are those I find especially irksome and RTD's flaws I find easily forgiveable.

There's a great thread analyzing RTD and Moff on Previously TV. I think I agree with the camp that thinks the best combo was Moff writing and RTD Showrunning. Each gets in trouble when they're running their own scripts. They are NOT Mr. Whedon.

There's also some great analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the Capaldi S1.

There's a post that captures almost exactly my thoughts on the finale, so I'm letting it incubate to see if I have anything to add or twist. It's here:
http://forums.previously.tv/topic/17763-s08e12-death-in-heaven/
(companionenvy's post)

PTV review of the season here:
http://previously.tv/doctor-who/the-dysfunction-of-three/

"A bit more show, or a bit more tell. Either one, I don't care." Yes!
Edited by KMInfinity, Nov 9 2014, 09:48 PM.
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KMInfinity
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That just proves Moff is all about plotty tricksy crap. :-(

I have moe thoughts but no time to think them thru. :D

Bilki if you get retro TV, they are in the middle of the Pertwee years and every other arc has Delgado. I like him. Retro airs 2 episodes nightly (half hour each)

http://www.myretrotv.com/

http://twidw.doctorwhonews.net/channels.php?code=216&detail=broadcast&start=2014-09-30

I'm excited---The Three Doctors 4 episode arc on Mon-Tues!

At least a month before Baker's Doctor appears. I don't think they are showing every episode - I think some are missing...
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KMInfinity
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>>>>>Do you think any of Delgado's Master stories are better than the rest?

Over all, because of the mix of characters and story, I'd say the Mind of Evil, Colonies in Space, and the Sea Devils. But since the stories are 4-6 episodes long there is always a scene or two that shines somewhere. There isn't really a consensus of 'the best of Delgado' which I think is significant, and lots of folks who agree they're all good or better on some level.

Delgado's master is legendary for being a 'gentlemanly' bad guy. He and Pertwee were great friends and I think I read somewhere that when Delgado died (in a car accident) Pertwee only did one more season and said he just couldn't play the Doctor without Degado opposite him. Maybe apocryphal?? I'll check.

Looking around, I found this. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6-NZCunVVQ&feature=related

I just love his expressive face.

>>>>>My biggest complaint would probably be that the Master's motivation for wanting to kill the Doctor seemed to be only because he's E-VOL.

Yeah, that's going to be consistent, for the most part. There has always been a bit of confusion about The Master, his motivation, his 'frenemy relationship' with The Doctor. Retcons that the show later touches upon include the whole debate about whether The Master is The Doctor's brother. For sure, he's a 'best friend' at the Time Lord Academy. And his insanity is The Doctor's fault, sort of, sometimes, depending on the episode. Great first line in this article.

http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/doctor-who/21086/doctor-who-a-celebration-of-the-master

And reading the article makes it very clear to me why Missy just is a terrible terrible alt-Master.
Edited by KMInfinity, Nov 15 2014, 11:22 AM.
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KMInfinity
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>>>>>The Autons got to do a lot more than in Terror of the Autons but I got slightly bored in the middle
>>>>>Then they totally lost my attention with those silly primitive people and their quest for fire.

This is why fast forward is needed when watching old-Who. :firemad: I fast forward quite a bit.
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KMInfinity
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>>>>>I warmed to Pertwee immediately but it's taking me a bit longer with Hartnell.

Did you see "Adventure in Time and Space" ? If not, that might help set the tone. It's excellent. David Bradley is terrific. http://www.bbcamerica.com/doctor-who/guide/50th-specials/an-adventure-in-space-and-time/
Edited by KMInfinity, Nov 18 2014, 09:17 PM.
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KMInfinity
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>>>>>"Adventure in Time and Space"-----Were they airing that last year around the time of the Christmas Special?

It aired the week before the 50th Anniversary special I think.

>>>>>The weekend showing on RTV is the gunfighters...

The Okay Corral story? That was w-e-i-r-d and didn't feel like Who at all.
Edited by KMInfinity, Nov 19 2014, 09:47 PM.
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KMInfinity
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The Sarah Jane arc began on Retro last week. Really enjoying her a lot with Pertwee. I think he regenerates this week.
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KMInfinity
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I adored "Last Christmas." I know there will be a LOT of nit-pickers and people pointing out all of the dreamy-weamy mess, but there were so many good lines and character moments I was enchanted. Plus I love all of those 'reality is in doubt' plots, so for me that's a big win.


http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/doctor-who-2014-christmas-special/

I hope he's right about Shona - loved her. More after I surf the hoi-polloi views.

(Retro update - still getting used to Tom Baker. I know he's iconic, but I am finding him more buffoonish than I expected, more like #2, who is the one I liked least of the three early Doctors. I adore Sarah Jane and her chutzpah. She is SO young. The writing is still very comic bookish. I am currently in E2 of genesis of the Daleks, a seminal series, and not sure what to think. Davros is a serous let-down so far.)
Edited by KMInfinity, Dec 26 2014, 09:10 PM.
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KMInfinity
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>>>>>a mixture of Amy's Choice and the beetle that Donna had to deal with that created another universe.
A lot of the people being negative are complaining it was a ripoff of Inception, and I just laugh at that....as if Inception invented the 'reality is in doubt' plot. One reason I like the episode so much is that I do enjoy those kinds of plots when they are well executed, and i think Moffat did well. Other people are miffed that Clara isn't gone, which is unfair to the actual episode.

But most of the critics and fans loved it, and the general feeling is this is the best Christmas episode...or #2 or #3 after Tennant's Christmas Invasion and Matt's Christmas Carol.


>>>>>Again I liked the guest people, that was interesting in this series that a lot of the guest people I could see as future companions. Maybe they were testing in case Jenna decided to leave...

There's a rumor that Coleman wasn't sure she'd resign so they filmed two endings and we saw both since she decided to stay, and the guests were possible new companions.
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KMInfinity
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One thing I liked is that the episode seemed to resolve the tension between The Doctor and Clara. The lies are out in the open, her residual 'mourning' for Eleven is done, they seem to have a connection again. Capaldi's Doctor WANTS her along, instead of sort of grudgingly expecting her along, and she admits she has feelings for him 'like for Santa' so that ends the flirty hints. And most importantly, according to most Clara haters, there wasn't all of the "STOP THAT" and bossy Clara where she seemed to know more than him, be more the center than him.

So the readjustment of their dynamic could be a great thing.

At least she isn't as boring as I thought she was when she was The Impossible Girl with Matt.

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KMInfinity
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>>>In regards to Tom Baker, it makes sense that you're still adjusting to him, KMI, especially because you've got so many other Doctors to compare him against. I really like Pertwee, and could see myself having trouble with Tom Baker if I had met Pertwee first. I wonder, though, if what you see as buffoon-ish I see as more of a playful quality.

Slowly adjusting. He DOES seem to have a good range, so his 'playfulness' will be balanced with a steelier side, which I will appreciate once I get used to him. He was great in Genesis of the Daleks, especially the Shakespearean 'aside/monologue' where he's debating the justification for committing genocide to destroy the newly created daleks. So many stories are starting to resonate with what comes later... <3

I gotta say the iconic scarf is driving me crazy! It's so....THERE. and sometimes IN THE WAY...

>>>>>How far off is "City of Angels" on RTV? I've read so many positive things about that one, and now I see that it was written by Douglas Adams. I'm currently reading The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which I'm enjoying.

We have appx five weeks to "Pirate Planet" (which he wrote) but probably at least 4 months until season 17 when he was the showrunner for Bake's final season. that's tthe season with City of Death and Sharda.
(I didn't know this, had to look it up in my who-links folder... B-) )

Baker 4's run:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/index_fourth.shtml
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KMInfinity
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Well, I am sorry to report that Baker will NOT be one of my favorite doctors. (#4 regenerated in the Logopolis arc this week and now I get to check out Davison.) I was hoping I'd warm up to him, because it would have made my life easier if I, for once, ran with the big crowd but nope. I prefer #3. And even #2 and #1, especially in terms of storytelling.

I do know have a stronger understanding of what old-school Whovians are talking about when the are discussing what they view as a shift in the stories/styles. Me, I personally like even Matt's Doctor #11 better than Baker's #5, which means my list has him iat the bottom and I haven't even seen 5-6-7 (and need to rewatch 8's movie).

#10
#9
#3 (Capaldi still on trial, could be near to top...maybe not)
#11
#1
#2
#4


It is good that I can see how some of these stories and companions fit into the greater picture, but overall I found the plots really really silly, and Baker really really annoying.
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KMInfinity
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I know, right?

:ermm:

:firemad:
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KMInfinity
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So much to say, so overworked. Big agree w/Bilki on everything. Want to add that a couple seconds of the guitar dude was all that was needed. Yikes. And compliment Capaldi. His chops are making some of this work despite the plotty mess. Everything in the hand-mine field was gold. Most of Missy was gold. But a lot of the Dalek drama was just a big old reset button waiting to happen.
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KMInfinity
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Yeah, dissecting timey wimey wibbly wobbly is tough enough under RTD. Moffat? Just no.

I forgot Capaldi was a punk rocker back in the day.
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KMInfinity
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The really strong positive critical feedback is baffling to me. I am not very pleased with the new season. Capaldi is great, he's settling in better and I agree he's more rounded and less mean or 'random.' However, the writing is much more problematic and not to my taste. I think the writers are very definitely trying to recapture the early Who, especially #4, and I much prefer RTD's years. I am in the minority. Pleople are especially heaping praise on the Woman Who Lived, Maisie William's 2nd of her two parter. I actually disliked it a lot. It captured what I really don't like - strong themes and ideas, with great performances, badly written and developed. imo

The two part premiere Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar was better that what follows. Parts of that two parter I really liked, parts not so much.

The sonic glasses are just dumb, and touching base with capaldi's guitar days every episode is a bit too much. ymmv
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KMInfinity
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Boy I am disliking this season even more than any of the Matt Smith years. This last episode with Clara's death (?) was just terrible, imo. If she's really dead then I'll bump it up from terrible to pretty damn bad.
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KMInfinity
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Whups. Should have spoiler covered that. Sorry Bilki.
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KMInfinity
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Yeah lots expected Gatiss. Reaction to Chibnall is mixed to negative. I liked Torchwood better than most, so I am cautiously optimistic. I hope he'll put a more adult spin on the show... though his actual Who credits are not on anyone's favorites, I'm pretty sure.

People are more upset about the confirmation of a Who-less 2016. (except for Christmas.)

There is speculation that they are finally going to have The Doctor regenerate as female. (Missy; the Timelord in the finale) General consensus - CC is much more able to write for female characters than Moffat or Gatiss. He's much stronger on character than plot, which I also like.

I would have loved to see Toby Whithouse - he's hinted he'd like to do it... Oh well.\

GallifreyBase has a whole thread pretending to be a post-Chib season analysis and mocking him. Whovians are so weird. :P
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KMInfinity
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I really like the actress... and for long LONG times, many people have wanted a female, but I think an older "wise woman" type would have been better - except too close to the older Capaldi. I did love Capaldi, especially after the very special snowflake Clara (Jenna Coleman) went away, but the "feng shui" young cute Matt Smith followed by older weary Capaldi made that a hard transition, I guess.
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