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Martha Byrne's Gotham
Topic Started: Dec 2 2009, 02:44 PM (1,657 Views)
Dax
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>> but I was talking about shows created for the internet and never on tv.

I was, too (beyond the first sentence of my second para).

>> I can't help but think that writers/creators would sure like the feeling of not having to answer to anyone but themselves about the shows they've created.

Absolutely - as Joss said in that interview. But unless there's money in it (or said creators aren't, you know, in NEED of money), we're not yet talking about the death of network television as we know it. Because there will still be MORE money in 'the old system'.

>> wonder if any of the shows currently running online Gotham, Venice, etc are bound by any of the TV ratings as far as nudity and language.

I expect they have the FREEDOM to do whatever they like, but... 'know your audience' - soap fans... I would be very surprised if the websoaps generated by these actresses we know will have different standards re: profanity/nudity than if they aired on regular television...
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Scorpioww
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I think it would be ideal if they would make these online soaps about 20 minutes long each. Then if a network (like Soapnet) could pick them up, add commercials and give the internet shows new life.

IF the shows are actually ON tv they have the opportunity of attracting casual viewers that can become big fans. Online they only have the big fans and there is no way for the casual viewer to stumble on the show to check it out.

Soapnet could benefit from this too. They picked up that "Being Erica" show. Why not an actual soap!?!
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jbrr1212
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I think making them longer and more easily adaptable for TV would be a good idea too, not that I have much hope of any of them ever ending up there, but it seems like it would make sense.

The Gotham casting news of the day is Melanie Smith (ex-Emily, ATWT) is joining the cast. I liked her as Emily so it'll be nice to see her again.
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Scorpioww
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I have always loved Melanie Smith. She is the reason that Em has been my favorite character since I started watching ATWT. Her affair with the younger Paul, and Paul shooting his father, James, to protect her is still one of my earliest and favorite soap memories!
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RoseVioletDaisy
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10 minutes should be the absolute minimum. You can't do anything of substance in less time than that.


One thing really did bug me about the Venice premiere. The first scene, the supposed Otalia-payoff, was almost as lame as something Wheelie would've directed herself. They said they'd be going for realism here but CC & JL just dragged out their standard-issue daytime soap set phony kisses and despite their characters supposedly being so hot for each other that they ripped each others clothes off and threw them on the floor so they could have sex RIGHT NOW, they woke up dressed! :wtf: I'm pretty sure that's not how lesbians have sex, with at least a tank top and panties on at all times. :( I wasn't expecting porn but for all the whining CC did about Otalia not being able to kiss on GL, which I agreed with, I was expecting something a little rawer, hotter, or more realistic than an ultra-fake PG-rated romp that didn't even come close to CC's awesome sex scene with GA back in 2003.

In short, Venice was a 6 minute episode of NuCokeGL minus everyone except Otalia with a bad DOOL actor thrown into the mix and even worse crap music. I know the Otalia-ites loved it to death but yawn. Whatever. If it was free, I might keep up with it just to see if it improves but there's no way I'm paying for something so...painfully ordinary. :whistle:
Edited by RoseVioletDaisy, Dec 7 2009, 03:10 AM.
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Dax
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Okay, so... I will be watching Gotham.

(I've missed Martha Byrne and all, but Melanie Smith... she was my very favorite for a very long time...)
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I never gave much thought before to how much it costs to do a show like Gotham. When I started thinking about it, wow...even if the people involved aren't getting paychecks (and really that can't last and I guess shouldn't). But still think it has to be more than an hours worth of episodes being a whole season.

Dax...yeah think I was getting too far ahead wondering if it would "kill" regular tv series lol way ahead.

With Martha getting so many actors that I'd like to see...just makes me think of even more I'd wish she get. :)

The Venice premiere was a let down for me and that could be because of the short epi. What I got from it was it was all about showing the kiss between the two women. The kiss they weren't allowed to give on GL...the kiss the "fans" really really wanted.

Story wise in that short time frame I saw an on again off again on again relationship where one person loves the other more...and the other person knowing this still sleeps with the other. Usually it's the man's role of wanting just a sexual relationship or of not wanting ties but not wanting to let her go either. So instead Chrystal C is doing that role instead of a male figure.
I thought (dont' know where I got the idea) but I thought that it was about their "love" and being able to show it now that it's not a tv show. Probably I just read too much into it and it will pan out differently. Reading some of the boards it seems like many where so excited and happy just finally seeing the two give a full on kiss like that was all that mattered. Guess I saw enough of the L Word that I need more than just a steamy (cuz it was sexy) kiss to get my attention.

Rosevioletdaisy...I think Venice wasn't even a full 6 mins...credits and music were the last minute or two. It really wasn't but a minute or two longer than Gotham. Martha did say that the length would increase each episode but didn't commit to any certain length of time.

Wonder how long it took...actual filming to get the first episode of Gotham. hmmm think I'll go ask that question on Gotham's message board for the Q&A tonight. ;)
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SOD

OMG! This is exactly what I was trying to say in my previous post about Venice....only she makes sense.

That's in direct opposition to VENICE, which kicked off riding the coattails of GL's Olivia and Natalia. In its favor, I will say that the production values were great, the visuals absolutely stunning, and VENICE definitely has its technical stuff together. But pretty images (and an even prettier cast) aside, it seems like the whole premise is just to give Otalia fans a story that includes Crystal Chappell and Jessica Leccia making out like they weren't able to on GL. In other words, it's Otalia fan fiction with the names changed. Except, folks, here's the thing: fan fiction is free. To watch more than the six-minute pilot episode of VENICE, people must subscribe and pay $9.99 for a season pass. Yeah, I'm not doing that. I wasn't intrigued enough by what I saw to plunk down 10 bucks for more of it. In six minutes, we had at least 1-2 minutes of credits and establishing shots. Then, it was Gina and Ani kissing and cuddling in bed, Gina pulling a QUEER AS FOLK's Brian Kinney and going, "So sorry baby, not into commitment, can we just have sex in the shower instead?"


If I were a writer, I would have said all that lol.
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jbrr1212
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Its nice to finally start seeing some other dissenting voices about Venice. I have been overloaded by all the "Venice is the best thing since sliced bread" commentary and was really starting to wonder if it was just me who was missing something. Its nice to have an honest discussion about the show without being shouted down by the fandom.

I think they did most of the Gotham shooting in a few days. I think she said they did the 1st 4 eppys at once so if you get an answer I'd be curious to know the actual timeline too.

I wont be home tonight to watch eppy 2 but I'll pop in tomorrow and post my thoughts.
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jbrr1212 I know what u mean. In case you haven't seen the site, Martha made a message board for Gotham. Q&A from her chat will be on the board. I put up a boatload of questions lol...the link:
http://boards.gothamtheseries.com/index/

I didn't know she did the first 4 at once...maybe she has gone back re-edited or added more time for each one so they aren't all 3+ mins long.

I liked Olivia/Nat on GL and I like both actresses - have no complaints about their acting or anything and I am hoping they do well with the Venice series. I did go back and read more of the information on the Venice website and have a better understanding of characters and what the "plan" is for them. According to the website the Gina/Ani characters are going to be with other women...wonder how the Olivia/Nat fans are gonna feel about that? The only down side for me not seeing the series is I would like to see Jordan Clarke and Gina T again. Maybe they'll end up on you tube though.
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Maybe this shouldn't go here but on the GH side...if so let me know or delete it.
Looks like Vanessa Marcel is going to be in a new web series- female lead from the trailer.
http://daytimeconfidential.com/2009/12/08/sneak-peek-of-vanessa-marcils-sizzling-new-web-series-the-bannen-way

Kinda curious to see if this show will be another pay for view and how long the actual epi's are. Though this isn't a "soap" type series it sure looked like it was interesting.
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Dax
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It would be right to ALSO have this up on the GH board, but it's not out of place here... this topic isn't JUST about Gotham, but the websoap trend in general...

Just saw the news about ATWT. Sad, but not unexpected.

Sadder still that the last year doesn't hold much promise of being of much quality...

And then there were six.

I'm kinda okay with the fact that my daily soap habit of 25 years will be at an end in nine months.
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I was thinking about that today Dax, the only soap I'll have left that I always watch is GH. I do tivo B&B and AMC but usually don't even watch using the FF button. I gave up Y&R back when EB left and never started taping it again. I do not watch nor tape any other daytime programming other than the view once in awhile. So gonna be one hour of soaps in a year.
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jbrr1212
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So I finally got around to watching eppy 2 of Gotham. Still liking it. The music wasnt quite as overpowering this time around but it could still use some tweaking. Loved the look between Martha & Michael. Maeve looked great and its great to see her again. They seem to be really taking the time to set things up so hopefully we'll get some answers to our plot questions in the next few eppys. In this short format people might lose interest unless something happens soon. I'm still very intrigues and cant wait to see more.
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I enjoyed it and it also made me want to see the next epi. It was good seeing Maeve and Maggie (Shannon)....just a side note...when I'm seeing the actors I'm still seeing Jack, Lily, Shannon, Mitzi, and Vanessa but they may change after I see them for more than 6 mins in the new roles.

Honestly what I'd rather to is just wait until there were about 10 epi's and watch them at once, but Martha is trying to get sponsors and needs the hit numbers from her site and from youtube to show them there is interest. She said that repeat hits count so I make sure to watch them a couple of times a day on both sites, well I hit the play button anyway.

Venice was supposed to be shown every Friday but will not be shown today. It was on twitter they had to pull it because they had so many hits their servers could not take it so they have to add more servers. That's good news for them and while some people were upset because they paid to see it and won't ...it's not like they are really missing anything...they will see them all.

Is anyone on here a paid member of Venice? Just curious. And did anyone try to watch Gotham Monday when it first aired? I tried to watch it and it just seemed to take forever to load and wondered if it was my computer or if that is the problem that Venice had...so many trying to watch it at once that you could only get a couple of words out at a time.
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mozartkc
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Ok...I caved and watched them just now. It looks very promising! I loved seeing the old faces of our old friends :) I for 1 would pay a small monthly fee to watch Martha and help support her cause. Wouldn't it be a big F You to CBS if this web show succeeds and pulls together viewers and support? I sent them an email stating that I would donate some to help and many many other viewers would do the same if given the chance.
Yes, it was really short but I think if she gets the funds the rest will follow. HURRAY for Martha!!! I do hope that somehow she is able to come to ATWT for the end :(
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Mozartkc, were you making it a point of not watching? lol sounds like you made yourself do it. Martha made a comment on twitter that it will stay free if she has to sell a kidney to do....or some other organ lol
Her website for Gotham is selling cups, hats and shirts that I think is also helping the show, have you checked them out yet? I did buy a coffee mug the other day. Maybe by next year if it's working out she can add characters and get Maura West and some of the others that will be out of jobs.

I was thinking it would be a big F you to them for letting her go in the first place. I'd like to see her have a character on Gotham that is a big CEO of some company and his name is Wes Moonbeams and have that character fired for being such an ass lol
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mozartkc
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Too funny!! Damn..sometimes I wish I could sell a kidney. Those damn laws!!! If it were legal to sell organs than the US wouldn't have a shortage! Guess I'll have to go to Thailand or something? :)
I wasn't forcing myself to not watch it. I just didn't have much interest and was too lazy to watch on the computer LOL. I will def keep watching it though. It would be awesome if she could get Maura West and some of the other vets from other shows to pop in. I think if she can get a good fanbase than anything is possible. I do like the fact that she doesn't have commercials but I wish her episodes were longer. I guess that is part of her thing though to keep us teased and waiting for more :)
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Oh I would prefer not to have those pesky ads too but if it keeps it free, I'm cheap, I'll gladly sit there and ignore the ads. I download games, I'm a game freak in the wintertime, anyway, there are some sites like, gamehouse.com and mostfun.com that give you a free game a day...the only thing is they come with the ads. But the ads are only like 20 secs long. The games would cost 6.99 if you pay a monthly membership or 19.99 without the membership. The savings is a plus for me.

If Martha can get this thing solid and increase the acutal time of it to at least 20 mins once a week I wouldn't mind paying 10 bucks for the second year. I'm curious about how the one Vanessa Marcel doing...if it's going to be longer, if they are going to charge.

I keep trying to figure it out in my mind how they are doing this. Do they rent a camera for one day and then to say 8 hours of tape and then break it down into a couple mins? If so, that's a lot of darn shows lol..
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Dax
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... still haven't watched Venice #1 or the first couple of Gotham yet, but here's an article in our local free weekly re: Venice, and the So Long, Springfield tour that came through here a week or so ago...

http://www.lasvegascitylife.com/articles/2009/12/11/news/local_news/iq_32988083.txt

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ok....there's been 3 epi's now. Is anyone watching Gotham? Venice? I just saw the 3rd Gotham...only saw the first Venice. From what I'm reading, Venice is so popular that people cannot get on to see the show and those that do are complaining about the sound. Of course there are some very happy fans still encouraging others (nicely and rudely) to give it time. But I am seeing some, "I want my money back if this continues", out there.

I want to support Martha and Gotham but I'm just having a hard time getting into this couple of minutes stuff. Too little content and too long to wait in between them. Seriously I think this last epi the closing credits were longer than the actual show....didn't replay it to see but I think it was.

I must be under a rock but I just realized from an article I read online about Venice, that it's a "gay" show. I thought it was a show that had some gay and some straight characters. I also thought it was a continuation of sorts of Nat and Olivia from GL using different names. I thought wrong lol Not that it matters one way or the other but it explains all the reference to the gay community I have been seeing. The L Word was one of my favorite shows up until the ending...did not care for the way it ended at all!

I know it's going to take them both time to straighten out the problems with sound and servers, evidently they didn't give it too much thought before putting it online. Or maybe they did and just didn't realize the problems that would come up. Gotham's 3rd epi...the sound and music is much better but the camera work didn't thrill me... a little blurry at times and a little choppy when following Michael and Martha on their walk. Found out that they were a couple waaaaay back in high school, but they must have broke up early in high school since she married someone right out of high school. They haven't seen each other since then. They both have kids. He's rich and she works at a good job as a buyer. 3 episodes and that's what I got. Oh and it looks like they are both glad to see each other again.

I read that Venice is supposed to go a whole 8 mins next season. Well that's better than 3 or 4. CC said that they made enough money off of Venice to pay for the next season and to pay all the actors and give them a christmas bonus. Sounds like they are making more than they do on their day jobs. ok...that was a joke. Almost seems unfair that the actors agreeing to do Gotham only got a lunch and airfare. CC said that sponsors are coming to HER...Martha is pounding the streets trying to find some. Is that because of the large fan base for Venice? where were these people when CC was Olivia on GL?
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jbrr1212
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I havent seen eppy 3 of Gotham yet but I will get to it in the next day or two. I agree it is too long between eppys, I would at least prefer weekly. Have only seen eppy 1 of Venice but read about all the problems with eppy 2.

I've followed this Otalia/CC/Venice thing pretty close from the beginning so I can give you my take on it but others could have a different opinion. I'll start by saying I am a CC fan I became a CC fan when she was paired with Phillip on GL. I liked Otalia but I wasnt nuts about them, and I had high hopes for Venice until all the issues previously discussed in this thread. I still hope it does well but I'm not invested in it anymore.

I think CC has always had a large fanbase going back to her first run on Days, she solidified that base with her GL fans.

Then there are the Nat/Olivia fans who only came to GL because they heard about "Otalia". This is a very large, very vocal, predominately lesbian group. In the final months of GL they were leading the fight to try and save the show. They came together in a way no fanbase in daytime ever has and people took notice. They were organized, persistent and creative. Ultimately as we know the show didnt survive but they got themselves front and center and CC smartly reached out to them. She and Jessica (to a lesser extent) became accessible to them in a way that most "stars" arent. Thus endearing them even more to the fanbase as people instead of Nat/Liv.

I'm not sure at what point exactly "Venice" was created. It was sometime around the height of the kiss/no kiss controversy. At that point alot of those who came to GL for Otalia became very disgruntled and latched on to Venice. They put all the energy they had into making it a success. I think it started as a way to reunite her and Jessica for those fans and grew from that point into a show for the gay community. Some fans have taken it almost to the point of obsession.

I think the difference in sponsorship is directly related to all that. The Venice fans are out there in force writing/emailing etc. CC doesnt have to look for sponsorship because the fanbase brings them to her.

Martha has a big fanbase but I dont think its near as big and Crystals and its way less vocal. I think Martha is also a bit more limited on who she can bring in as a sponsor.

Thats my take on it anyway.
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jbrr..thank you for your insights. You cleared up some of my confusion. I actually enjoyed CC on GL and like her with all her pairings...Josh, Alan, Phillip, Nat...I thought she brought a lot to the show in general. I've never watched Days but I'm sure she must be great on there to get so many fans.

wow....never had any idea that her fans worked so hard for her and for GL/Venice. Well it seems they can do for Venice what they couldn't for GL. Course once TPTB have their minds made up I supposed there isn't any changing them no matter what any fan base does.

I'm seeing that Martha doesn't have as large a fan base too...even with the media. This morning on twitter the Suds Report guy put up the Best/Worst list and he named Venice "The Best Soap Web Series". Two soaps, one had 2 couple mins epi's and the other had one and he could pick a best from that.

Really makes sense though as far as sponsors coming to Venice with all the letter writing. I don't think Martha wants to do it that way. When she first started she said she would let fans know how to help with the sponsors through letter/email writing and so far has never mentioned it again.
While Martha is very nice and open and will reply to most questions on twitter and her chats, she basically ignores any offers of help or questions of sponsors. I dont' know who's running the Gotham web site but they don't bother to answer any/many questions (tech) emailed to them and they aren't very good at updating info. Sounds like two very different ways of running the show.

I hope they can both pull it off and eventually make shows that can actually be called shows and not little snippets. Still I'm curious to see the new web series that Vanessa Marcel is in and see if it's the same set up.
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The website Daytime Confidential did a blog about Gotham, said one is coming for Venice. I hate to say it but I agree with them. I just saw the very short 4th episode...but really it's just too short to get my interest in wanting to bother. I did and do bother only to rate it high to hope someone will sponsor the show and maybe she can make it longer.

http://daytimeconfidential.com/2010/01/05/gotham-we-have-a-problem

I got a link from twitter on Vanessa Marcel's web soap. It's running around 7-9 mins. They have, I think 4 shows up for viewing. Only watched one, wasn't really interested in cops and robbers type show. But it really was nice to look at. Sound was good, music was good too.
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