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Martha Byrne's Gotham
Topic Started: Dec 2 2009, 02:44 PM (1,656 Views)
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First, is it ok to post about Gothem here or does it need it's own section? Kind of wondering about the web soaps and where to talk about them.

Did anyone see the first episode?

One thing I'll say for sure is that it did peak my interest and sure made me want more.
Two things though I didn't like and hope they change. The music, don't know if it's just me but the music was so loud I was having problems hearing them talk. So I hope they turn that down.

And I had no idea at all that it was only 3 minutes long. Either this needs to be changed or I'm going to just wait until they have at least 1/2 hour of them done.

Martha has been tweeting up a storm and I did ask her about the music and she told me they were working on it. It is said that you could hear voices of some of the other actors coming up during the first epi.

The music was from Lisa Brown's sons band. So far it looks like the shows will be new every other week (Monday) so the next one is 12/7

I'm looking forward to Venice too.
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Scorpioww
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I saw the first Gothom. It was nice to see MB again. She's like a lifelong friend. Miss her on ATWT.

I expected it to be longer too. The credits were longer than the show. Michael Park is a hard sell as a rich guy after seeing him as Jack all these years.
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blosslover
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I was wondering where we would discuss these web shows too. I am not sure what I thought of the first episode, as it was so short. I hope they update their website with more character bios soon. :)
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I know what u mean scorpioww, my first thought on seeing him was Jack, where's Carly lol. But it really was nice seeing Martha and man oh man made me miss her as Lily even more than I already do.

blosslover- from what I'm reading online none of the viewers seemed to know ahead of time that it was so short.
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Martha tweeted this link for the series at youtube. I just watched it and the sound quality is so much better than the first time I watched it. I could recognize the voices on the phone and could hear "Lily and Mitz" talking.

Gotham
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bilki
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Thanks for that youtube link, lexi. The opening music was a bit obnoxious for what I'm guessing is to be perceived as a soap. And the cliche martini-sipping gay character is disappointing. But it's good to see Martha Byrne, again.
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Dax
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>> First, is it ok to post about Gotham here or does it need its own section? Kind of wondering about the web soaps and where to talk about them.

I would say this is the most natural place for Byrne's... Chappell's, on the Days board probably makes the MOST sense, but it wouldn't be out of place on the GL one, of course (which should probably move to 'defunct soaps' one of these days)...

Haven't watched it yet... I'd rather wait 'til 3 or 4 are up - I'm sure they'll archive, it's not going to be any kind of 'You ONLY have a week to watch, and then it's gone' kind of thing...
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jbrr1212
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I liked it. I think she said the future episodes will be a bit longer and while this was the first eppy it was intended to be more of a teaser. They will still be short (I think 6 mins) but the websoaps tend to be shorter, I think Venice eppy are going to be about 12mins. Loved trying to figure out the voices at the beginning but yeah the music is an issue.
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jbrr1212...Martha just tweeted me and said that she thinks the music issue is more about which link you listen to it on. Not sure about that though cuz if one link has lousy sound quality then even the music would have that problem. What I heard from the link I originally watched the epi from was just that the music was too loud, not unclear.

I could hear Damian and Lucinda while Jack was in his car...did you hear anyone else? I am glad that Venice is going to be longer :)
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Wow- guess I won't be posting about CC's Venice on the net. She just tweeted that the first episode is free but the rest is available ONLY by paid membership.

"First episode of VENICE is free and the rest of the season is through subscription for $9.99! Subscription will include behind-the-scenes footage of VENICE and the all the fun stuff that happened on set!

Not on a whim would I pay for this. Maybe I'll have a different opinion later but I'm a bit disgusted that she would pull this after not mentioning it once in all the times she's tweeted about it. Guess she feels she has enough fans willing to pay for this though.


Edited to add: Maybe I'll have a different opinion later is about being disgusted not about changing my mind and paying for it.
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jbrr1212
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When I first watched it the sound was too loud and unclear. Its better in the link you posted above but yeah its still too loud. I have read that other places as well so hopefully they will adjust it for coming eppys. I love that Martha tweets back. Shes so sweet. I just love her.

I know I recognize the girls voice as well I just cant place who it is yet.
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jbrr1212
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I had heard rumors of Venice being a subscription thing but I didnt really think they would go that route. I dont see me paying for it and thats too bad because I was looking forward to it. I think its a bad move...yes the Otalia nuts will pay for it but if shes trying to make this a mainstream success I think paying for it will turn off alot of casual viewers. Its also kinda nuts they waited until the day before to decide this. It'll be interesting to see how it works out.
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jbrr1212..I just went to the Venice facebook page and there are quite a few posts from people who can't/won't pay. But...there are some who are very avid in posting how "fair" it is. I have a feeling those are her fans. I know she has a large fan base from Gl

According to them- when people joined the Venice web site they were asked if they would pay a "fee" to watch the series... some also said that CC had tweeted about it. I don't think that is true since I've been following her on twitter and never once saw it mentioned.

Also the venice twitter is now saying the series will have a dvd...but they aren't clear yet on if that's included. Not that it would change it for me. Some of her fans are talking about the high cost to CC and the rest of the cast...hmmmm guess Martha and company aren't trying to foist it off on the viewers. Surely they could get some of those companies that put ads on....you know a small ad before viewing the couple min epi.

Myself, I'm thinking it was pretty lousy to put the paid membership crap out there the night before airing the first one. From what I'm seeing I'm not the first one to just hear of it today.


Edited to add: Martha just tweeted to me that Gotham will always be free...so that's cool. I was starting to wonder if they were going to change things. to anyone interested she is very nice on twitter and takes the time to answer and respond to people.
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jbrr1212
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I saw there was a poll on the Venice site a few weeks ago asking if ppl would pay for it. I voted no but I guess I lost that vote lol. She did tweet a few times about the possibility of having to pay for it but maintained they would try to keep it free. Guess that didnt work out. At one point there was talk of the series being free but the DVD with all the outtakes/extras being a pay only thing. I'm sure there is some cost to CC and Co. but you're right waiting til the last minute to decide to offset the cost by subscription is lousy. Especially after begging people to buy the panties etc. to help with the cost.

Nobody else is making theirs pay to watch (Gotham, Wed-locked, Imaginary Bitches, and I think Reality Bites are all free). I knew Gotham would remain free I tweeted Martha about that last week sometime. I asked what the most challenging part of a websoap was and she said funding (then asked if I had my Gotham mug yet lol). I went and ordered a mug lol. She then said it would stay free and thats why they are only filming a few eppys at a time to keep costs low. So I guess in effect I paid to watch it but that was my choice to support her, I wasnt forced to pay to see it.

I think I'm gonna go over to the Big Purple Dreams forum and see what they are saying. They seem to have the inside track on all things CC over there.
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blosslover
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Please let us know what the BPD people said jbr. I would be more willing to pay for a show, if I did get a physical item to view it like a DVD--have Dr. Horrible that way, and it is a musical. They have three versions of it on the disk. There was a mention earlier of it being $30 for the season of Venice (in some poll that was on a site for about a day). What I think is frustrating is for the people who bought merchandise in support of that show, and now are being told they have to pay to view it.

I enjoy how Martha responds on twitter and have heard back from her too. :)
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jbrr1212
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BPD is handling it pretty much like I figured they would lol. Most of the people over there are all rah-rah Team Venice, they have to do this to keep the show going for season 2 etc. There are a few who feel insulted or jipped but they were quickly told they were wrong and basically being crybabies. There are a few reasonable voices but the majority is definately pay it or shut up.

Interestingly there is an interview over there with CC from Israeli TV Guide where she broke the news about the subscription info. Here are a few interesting quotes

Q: What are the pros and cons in your opinion in producing an online soap?
A: The advantages are you have creative freedom across the board, how you want to shoot, what you want to shoot. The cons are nobody has quite figured out a way to make money although I think we are closing the gap.


Q: What are your expectations from Venice? Online life until the very end or maybe a future move to Daytime or cables?
A: You know for the time being I am very happy to stay on-line. It is nice that you have that creative freedom and it is hard to let go. I want to see if we can create a viable on-line business model that produces income.

Q: What will be the business model for Venice? Will viewers pay per episode? Not pay at all? Will Venice have commercials etc.
A: The business model for season 1 specifically will be that the first episode will be free and then the additional 11 episodes will be through subscription. So for $9.99 you will receive the rest of the season including behind the scenes footage exclusive to that season, be eligible for contests and other things, etc.

So I guess it really doesnt provide many answers but it sounds like the DVD/extras will be included in the 9.99 (though its still not clearly spelled out) and it sounds to me that she is trying to make this a profitable venture. I guess thats understandable but I still think its a big mistake. I could see if season 1 was a big success, then charging for season 2 but not right off the bat. I'm also very curious how they are going to keep the eppys from getting out on youtube etc.
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I can understand that it costs to make them. I'm sure they knew this going in. I wonder why Martha is able to do this and offer it free to viewers and Venice isn't. Is it being produced differently? Are the cast members wanting paychecks?

I spoke with Martha again and she is trying to get sponsorship for the series and I asked if it would help if fans were willing to send letters to the sponsors telling them how much we enjoy the show and/or that we would not mind a few ads during the episodes. Heck I'd help anyway I could to keep it free. So I'm writing a couple of different letters, notes really, to send to her. Maybe she can come up with a "form" type letter that people can sign to show sponsors that there are people who want to see this type of show.

If anyone has any ideas or can write a decent letter (it's been sooooo long since I've actually had to write something that makes sense lol) and wants to send it to her you can email it to her at the Gotham site or the Gotham Facebook site.

I didn't know about the mug...gonna go buy one lol
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blosslover
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Sorry for the dp... :rant: :blah: and moving on to the post that worked right.
Edited by blosslover, Dec 4 2009, 12:44 AM.
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blosslover
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If this is a double post, I am so sorry.

One of my issues with the one free episode to pay model, is how can Venice attract people outside the core to watch the program? Yes people who are into CC/JL and perhaps GL may go for it, but who knows about the fans of the other actors involved or people who aren't soap fans specifically. $9.99 would actually be cheap for a DVD, but just to watch on-line--CC and company do not have a huge cachet if you know what I mean. We love soaps has a huge thread on this... http://www.welovesoaps.net/2009/12/how-valued-is-venice.html

I think Martha seems to be using people who live on the east coast, to cast her show, so there are no travel expenses. Plus she had the tie in with the diamond exchange and Nicole Miller. Things like that help, I would hope.
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bloss thanks for the link...gonna check it out. I was put off about the charge for Venice because as much as I'm on twitter and even facebook yesterday was the first time I saw anything about it. Is anyone even sure of how long each Venice epi will be? From what I understand CC does have a very large fan base who are very loyal so maybe she'll be happy with them being her viewing audience.

I can't see how a poll on one web site is enough of a gauge to decide to all would be willing to pay though. Well I guess there's no point in even thinking about it anymore since it does have a fee and I'm not going to pay. I'll just keep my focus on Gotham.
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Jeannie
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I honestly wouldn't have a huge problem paying the $9.99 if it keeps my interest, however, I feel as if the more people willing to pay will make them up the price on the next "season" and that bothers me. (get everyone interested for 10 bucks and then once they are devoted and wanting more, double the price??)
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blosslover thanks again for the link...it was an interesting read. I must have been one of the 10 people on the net who never heard about the "pay for view" all these months cuz sure are a lot of people there who knew about it. Sure are a lot of people who are saying it loud and saying it proud that they'll give their $10 lol

Whatever. really not that important. I was pissed at first. I'm over it. I really wanted to see Olivia and Nat continue on their story and these are different characters with a different story so I wouldn't have gotten that anyway. I'll save my 10 bucks and wait for the next BB show where I know how many epi's I'll get and how long they last. :)
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blosslover
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While CC has a loyal fan group, many of them seem to have only latched on to her since Otalia. So who knows how loyal they will be in the long term? The poll was on Vcomm if I understand correctly, which is the message board on the Venice official site.

Jeannie that is a good point, if it is $10 to start, will it increase in the future?

Lexilani I understand what you mean. I wish CC and her crew had announced more detailed plans of how much they were charging for Venice before the week it was set to premiere.

Going back to Gotham...Casting news: Kurt McKinney (aka GL's Matt Reardon) is the newest member of the cast. http://www.welovesoaps.net/2009/12/kurt-mckinney-has-joined-gotham-cast.html
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Sure are a lot actors for Gotham. Must be lots of things planned to have that many roles. Monday is the next installment and is supposed to be longer. Looking forward to watching it :)
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jbrr1212
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Ok so just a quick jump back to Venice...watched the premier it was good but not great, imo. Those who longed for the Otalia kiss will be happy but beyond that I wasnt overly impressed. I can say with certainty now that I wont be buying it. If it ends up on youtube I'll probably check out future eppys (I want to see Jordan Clarke/Gina Tognoni) but thats about it. I did like the music though. Oh and a little LOL moment here the Venice nuts are accusing Martha of stealing Crystals ideas....I see NO similarities between the 2 shows whatsoever. Maybe its just me.

Theres supposed to be another casting announcement for Gotham this weekend so that should be interesting. Is it weird I want to support Gotham more now after the Venice letdown?
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jbrr1212 I saw it on youtube just now. It's a pretty show to look at. It's great seeing the girls again and like you if it's on you tube in the future I will watch to see some of my favs....billy for one. I found out (unless the info is wrong) that there will be 11 more 5 min episodes....they said 6 but really the "show" stopped at 5 something then there was a min of credits and music.

Their sound is really good...music stopped when people were talking. Saw some of the comments about the epi on facebook and you'd think most of them had orgasms. I hadn't heard any comments about Martha stealing their ideas but I'm not surprised about nasty comments...there were a few when someone would post against the membership fee.

I felt exactly how you felt about supporting Martha even more lol....I did send a couple of sample letters that "fans" could sign to send along to sponsor companies and she said she has a really big company interested and to keep our fingers crossed.

You know if the epi's were an hour long and there were 11 of them, maybe even 30 mins long...it wouldn't be so hard to put the money out..but were talking less than an hour of actual viewing time here.
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Dax
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http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/12/dollhouse-fox-joss-whedon.html

Long interview with Joss Whedon, parts of which apply to this topic... there's no real business model in place yet for making money off of original entertainment projects on the web, so various producers are trying various things... but this IS (more and more, it looks like) where the future is going, especially for independent-minded productions... the writers lost the strike. This is the new frontier.

I'm curious how Byrne and Chappell are working with the actors' unions...
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Dax if the actors are working "free" does the actors union have any say about it? I could be wrong but I thought I heard that the actors working in Gotham were not getting paid (so far). Gonna go read the link now.

Still reading but wanted to make a point before I lost the thought lol. It almost seems like the networks should be a little worried that people, writers, actors, creators, are thinking along the lines of going to the internet and getting rid of networks control. For networks, they could be the big losers here if they lose these people.

For us...what does it mean? Would it just give us even more options as far as programming? Or less to view on tv? Could be the quality of shows online would be better without networks butting in. Would it be more money we will have to put out to watch the shows on the net? Right now most of us have cable or satellite that we pay for monthly and since alot of shows (mine anyway) are on premium channels there's that extra fee. I am hoping that if/when series do start popping up left and right demanding pay for view that they at least last as long as a regular episode minus commercial time of course.

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Dax
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I believe they'd have to get waivers from the unions permitting them to do the work. I'm not sure (if internet-only projects apply). I know that Equity (stage) actors can get 'in trouble' (fined, blacklisted, etc.) if they do, say, a tiny community theatre production without securing 'permission' (which is often granted, but you still have to go through the asking process...).

More and more people are WATCHING 'television' on-line.. but how that works, business-wise, is still being worked out. There are a lot of web series I've heard about that I'd like to try and catch, but I haven't had time... lotsĀ of funnyordie short films I haven't seen yet, and Zach Galiafianakis has a chat show called 'Between Two Ferns'... Kevin Pollack does a weekly talk show that gets really in-depth with good guests - I'd love to have the time to watch more of those...

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oh, I didn't realize the union had that much power...but then I've never had to deal with a union for any of my jobs. Yep I know that episodes of all kinds of shows are viewable online but I was talking about shows created for the internet and never on tv.

I only knew of a 3 web show, Imaginary bitches, Gotham and Venice. Didn't realize there were others. I can't help but think that writers/creators would sure like the feeling of not having to answer to anyone but themselves about the shows they've created. hmmm...wonder if any of the shows currently running online Gotham, Venice, etc are bound by any of the TV ratings as far as nudity and language.
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