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Buffy/Angel/Joss; Catch-All
Topic Started: Dec 31 2007, 08:17 AM (7,129 Views)
Gatekeeper
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KMInfinity
Jul 28 2009, 09:07 AM
The bromance of S5 is pure awesome.
LOVE the bromance!

""Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the road less traveled by and they CANCELLED MY FRIKKIN’ SHOW. I totally shoulda took the road that had all those people on it. Damn." ~ JW

^^^ Now that sounds like the Gatekeeper curse to me. I just love Joss!
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Maria
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LOL--the FUNNIEST Angel moment takes place in Season Five. Hee hee... :) ;)
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KMInfinity
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I can think of several.... :lmfao:
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Cheryl
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I don't think anything TV related (certainly not GL's passing) has ever upset me as much as Angel's cancellation. On Valentine's Day. I'll never forget that. I worked pretty hard on the SaveAngel campaign, and it was so creative and focused. Oh well.

I can't even begin to imagine how devastating that must have been. I would have been crushed......and pissed!

I really couldn't tell you how I knew about Spike being on Season 5 of Angel. I would wager a guess that it's from my Youtube perusings of Spike/James Marsters clips that I more than likely picked it up. That is one spoiler I am thrilled to know about. AND it's what is pushing me to finish both series by mid August.
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LOVE the bromance!

Get outta town! Seriously? Between Angel and Spike? OMG, that would be delicious! :mad1:

We're back into Buffy again. Now I like Angel better. Go figure! All of those little wannabe Slayers are so wimpy and annoying. I'm ready to finish and get back to Angel. I just watched the Faith episodes on Angel, BTW. For the first time, I really, REALLY like Faith!
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KMInfinity
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Cheryl
 
Get outta town! Seriously? Between Angel and Spike? OMG, that would be delicious! :mad1:
Well, that's been implied since all the way back with Buffy S2! It is MORE than delicious. Though I don't really read much of the slash fanfic focused on them.

Which reminds me of one of my favorite flashbacks, especially since we see it from more than one perspective, with one of my favorite scenes of all time. The promo on the WB for the eppy Fool for Love, shows that way cool power walk through the fire at the Boxer rebellion...(I need to find a really good photo of that scene for my PhotoFile. I have it screencapped on my TV as a screensaver....)

http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/videos/buffy085.mpg

Just for fun: (Fanfic) The thesis of a Watcher-In-Training analyzing the vampire William the Bloody, AKA Spike. Written after Buffy S2. Twelve freakin chapters on such things as Feeding Habits (Ch. 5); Sexual Idiosyncrasies (Ch. 7); and Footnotes (LOLOL - some to imaginary texts in the Watchers' Library). You MUST check out the Appendices, especially Appendix B: Images.

http://www.channelingboards.com/SpikeThesis/title.html

The Buffyverse online is truly amazing.

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All of those little wannabe Slayers are so wimpy and annoying.
That's a major S7 complaint, especially Kennedy. However.... ::bites tongue:: :firemad:

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I just watched the Faith episodes on Angel, BTW. For the first time, I really, REALLY like Faith!
Yeah, her redemption after nearly killing Wesley back in S1 was not really complete, until she comes back and reintegrates and helps out our heroes.
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Cheryl
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Well guys.....I'm a little verklempt. We finished Buffy tonight. I can't believe it's over......dang it, we should have gone slower! Just kidding.

So, a few thoughts:

I can't believe you people never told me about Nathan Fillion coming on as evil Caleb aka The Second. Sneaky, sneaky! Holy crap but he was downright creepy. And OMG, when he gouged Xander's eye out! :eek:

The last three eppies were definitely my favorites. I especially liked "Touched" when Spike and Buffy spent the night together with him just holding her the entire night. Awwww....... This is one scene I MUST watch again:

Spike: "You listen to me. I've been alive a bit longer than you, and dead a lot longer than that. I've seen things you couldn't imagine, and done things I prefer you didn't. I don't exactly have a reputation for being a thinker. I follow my blood, which doesn't exactly rush in the direction of my brain. So I make a lot of mistakes, a lot of wrong bloody calls. A 100+ years, and there's only one thing I've ever been sure of: you. Hey, look at me. I'm not asking you for anything. When I say, "I love you," it's not because I want you or because I can't have you. It has nothing to do with me. I love what you are, what you do, how you try. I've seen your kindness and your strength. I've seen the best and the worst of you. And I understand with perfect clarity exactly what you are. You're a hell of a woman. You're the one, Buffy."

Oh....my God. James Marsters was so awesome in that scene with those tears in his eyes......he was just amazing. What a beautiful speech and so well done. I'm in awe. :wub1:

The hubby and I absolutely loved Andrew this season. What a hoot! When he was with the other two nerds, I never paid all that much attention to him but man, did he ever grow on me. Very funny character!

Kennedy-- :plzdie: Enough said. She had some big shoes to fill and just couldn't quite do it. Hated the Kennedy/Willow love scenes.

I cried when Anya was killed........I loved that girl. :(

Thank goodness I know I'll have Spike in Angel season 5 or I would have cried me a freaking river when HE died!!!

Awesome, amazing series. Thank you, Gate for sharing it with me and for urging me to continue. And thanks to all of you for basically watching it over again with me and sharing your fabulous thoughts and insights with me. You ALL rock!

And now it's back to Angel season four tomorrow. Sigh............
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Dax
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How many left in Angel 4?

Oops... yeah, forgot to tell you about Fillion. Surprise. Another Firefly friend coming up on Angel real soon...

I liked Andrew, too. You'll see him again.

Anya's death was a bummer.

Spike's death was well-done... and thankfully rescinded quickly.

I didn't like the big final fight... Fillion's a better bad guy than all the face-changes, but much of the last season didn't add up to a satisfying end for me. I liked moments/episodes, of course, but the storytelling wasn't as strong as in any of the other big arcs, to me.

Poor Xander.
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KMInfinity
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Cheryl, I love that scene in Touched. Of course, being a Spuffy fan.... I think the reason why so many Spike fans enjoy/accept the flaws in S7 better than other Buffy fans is that the season really did redeem Spike and make his story a major focus. His love and support never wavered ever. Another big fav S7 scene...when Spike comes back with Andrew and freaks that Buffy'd been exiled from her own house.

And the scene with Andrew on the bike...

For me, this was my first exposure to Nathan Fillion. I didn't watch Firefly live (I was still rather new to the Jossverse, watching 7 seasons of Buffy in 2-3 years) and so was very nervous about Firefly thanks to Caleb he Preacher.

Andrew is indeed a hoot. I just LOVED Storyteller, especially how he was used as a vehicle to channel fan comemnts. Loved his zoom on Buffy giving yet another *rallying the troops* speech...then he zooms out, snarks abut it, focuses on something else (willow/kennedy?)...and then much later back to Buffy, still droning on...... :fall:

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I didn't like the big final fight...
Loved it, with the music and all, the meeting in the school hallway, how everyone pealed off until we were left with just the original scoobies and Giles, the moment the potentials become true slayers, the scene of all the girls all around the world with the power, (especially that little slugger!), Spuffy flaming hands, Spike's grin as he incinerates....

I do agree the overall season-long pacing wasn't smooth. Lots of debate why. The best (and simplest) explanation I heard is that nearly the entire season focused on the end, Joss's vision for that last episode. He misfired on how cool it would be to have all the Potentials around most of the season, and would have been better to focus most of the season some other way, maybe on a Faux Big Bad - the way the focus was on the Nerds in S6 until Dark Willow ended S6.

Glad you enjoyed it Cheryl!
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Dax
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They also got quite a bit of the way into the season thinking that it MAY be the last, but not altogether SURE of it... there was a lot of waiting around for SMG to decide/declare...

I did like the big montage with the activation of the Potentials. Then I was just anxious for Angel 5 to provide us with some follow-up to it (and they do, eventually, and it's good).

'Storyteller' was a great, funny episode.
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Cheryl
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Dax
Aug 3 2009, 10:33 PM
How many left in Angel 4?
We watched 16 and 17 tonight. I must say, the end of 16--"Players" was awesome. The gang finally figured out that Cordy was not "Cordy" and they all confronted her. It was a great ending. Until that idiot little twit Connor swooped in and saved her in the next eppy. OMG. Could he be any dumber? I seriously despise him and wish he'd just go away. And take big, bad, preggers Cordy with him!

I'm so thrilled to hear that my little Andrew will be back. Hope it's in a lot of episodes. They FINALLY made Andy Hallet a regular. It was about time!!!

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And the scene with Andrew on the bike...

OMG, that was so great! I had to post that conversation....it made us laugh soooo hard!

SPIKE: It's not a road trip. It's a covert operation.
ANDREW: Right. Right. Gotcha. I—I bet even covert operatives eat curly fries. They're really good.
SPIKE (rolls eyes) Not as good as those onion blossom things.
ANDREW Ooh, I love those.
SPIKE Yeah, me, too.
ANDREW It's an onion... and it's a flower. I—I don't understand how such a thing is possible.
SPIKE See, the genius of it is you soak it in ice water for an hour so it holds its shape. Then you deep-fry it root-side up for about 5 minutes.
ANDREW Masterful.
SPIKE Yeah. (beat) Tell anyone we had this conversation, I'll bite you.

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

I loved "Storyteller" too. Hubby and I were just talking about it tonight.....how Joss was so cool in the way he tried different things like the musical eppy and this one. It was so unique! We were also reminiscing about the one scene where things are down and deadly and Xander is giving them all this really touching speech. Then the camera zooms in on Andrew who's crying like a girl. It was such a great moment.....we needed that laugh. You needed that comic relief to break all the tension of the end of the world stuff.

At the beginning of S7, I missed funny, sarcastic Spike but by the end, I LOVED Spike with a soul. It was a great way to end the series. And I can't wait to get to Angel S5. I miss my Spikey already!!!
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Dax
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>> Hope it's in a lot of episodes.

Sorry... only one or two (two, I think), but you'll be happy to see him. Some more Spike/Andrew stuff... He kinda serves as the 'ambassador' to the Buffy characters we've left behind... he'll be Giles or Buffy's messenger boy... a Watcher-in-training...

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KMInfinity
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Andrew's in two A5 eppies....

Great in both. (Smaller cameo style part in the 2nd.)



(( :hearts: Just thinking about all of the Spikey goodness in A5.... ))
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KMInfinity
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Joss on Twilight and Edward Cullen. LOLOLOL

You go Joss!!!! Posted Image

Angel or Edward?

Should I put this in the twilight thread? :cool:
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Cheryl
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KMInfinity
Aug 6 2009, 10:09 AM
Joss on Twilight and Edward Cullen. LOLOLOL

You go Joss!!!! Posted Image

Angel or Edward?

Should I put this in the twilight thread? :cool:
OMG, he is so freaking funny. I read the article but you HAVE to watch him in the vid to hear how tongue in cheek he is.......what a great sense of humor. I love Joss.
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KMInfinity
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The very well respected European Journal of Cultural Studies devoted an entire issue to Spike in 2005.

You can't access the journal unless you have a (very pricey) subscription to the journal, but even the titles are hilarious/interesting. Some have accessible abstracts.

http://ecs.sagepub.com/content/vol8/issue3/
Edited by KMInfinity, Aug 8 2009, 11:11 AM.
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Phantom
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Joss won the "Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form" Hugo Award for Doctor Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog


http://www.thehugoawards.org/


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KMInfinity
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Thanks Phantom. I missed that, since WorldCon and the Hugos are usually around Labor Day.

I know there has been some worry about stagnation, and competition from commercial Cons; have they moved off Labor day weekend permanently? I've been rather out of touch with SF fandom the last decade....

Glad Gaiman's Graveyard won. An outstanding book.

Joss received the Bradbury Award at the Nebulas in March. Guessing it was too late to nominate Dr. Horrible for March of 2009? (Though Wall-E was up for script.) Maybe it'll be in the 2010 awards.
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Cheryl
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EEEEEEEEEE!!! Lindsey's back! I'm so happy. Loving season 5.......we just watched 7 and 8 tonight. 7 (Lineage) was amazing. When Wes shot his 'father' about ten freaking times, I about died. Wow! Of course, it turned out not to be daddy dearest after all but he didn't know that. I REALLY love Wesley now! And finally Spike was made 'corporeal' again. I laughed so hard when he thought he could walk through the doors of Angel's office and ended up slamming face-first into and then fell backwards onto the floor. So freaking funny! :lmfao:

This was a fabulous exchange between Angel and Spike fighting for that silly cup in number 8--Destiny:

Spike: Come on, hero: tell me more! Teach me what it means. And I’ll tell you why you can’t stand the bloody sight of me.
Angel: Tell it to your therapist.
Spike: Because every time you look at me you see all the dirty little things I’ve done. All the lives I’ve taken. Because of you. Drusilla sired me…but you made me a monster!
Angel: I didn’t make you, Spike--I just opened up the door and let the real you out.
Spike (bashes Angel with cross, then stands holding it): You never knew the real me. Too busy trying to see your own reflection. Praying there was someone as disgusting as you in the world so you could stand to live with yourself. Take a long look, hero: I’m nothing like you!
Angel: No: you’re less. That’s why Buffy never really loved you. Because you weren’t me.
Spike: Guess that means she was thinkin’ about you--all those times I was puttin’ it to her.


Oh my!!! Very, very, VERY awesome episode! :clap:

And you guys were right......the Spike/Angel scenes are too great for words.
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Dax
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You're moving along...

So we can talk about Cordelia now. Yeah, good to know that she didn't 'go bad', that the thing throughout Season 4 wasn't her, that she didn't REALLY have sex with Connor, and blah blah blah...

But I was really sad to lose the character (and yummy Charisma Carpenter, too, of course). I was really liking that potential Cordy/Angel relationship, and the Season 3 finale, where they're getting close, and it's GONNA happen, and then...

And then she's an impostor, and then she's off the show. Sucky.

But I love that Spike's there. And Harmony, too.

How do you feel about the we're-running-W&H-now premise revamp?

I liked it.
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Cheryl
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Dax
Aug 15 2009, 02:56 AM
How do you feel about the we're-running-W&H-now premise revamp?

I liked it.
I like it, too. Definitely always something going on. I can't believe the show was canceled after this season because running Wolfram & Hart gives them soooooo many endless storylines for the future. I like that Gunn was given those uber brain cells and is now a lawyer. Wish I could do that! And Fred in the science lab is too cute......she's in her element. With the addition of Lindsey, I'm sure it will only get better and better. Woo-hoo!

I hope that Wes and Fred finally get together. His feelings for her are so sweet. And her relationship with Spike is cool, too. I love Fred! I love them all, actually. Duh!
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KMInfinity
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Already up to #8!!!!!

And we haven't discussed the end of S4 and the Happy Happy Joy Joy of Jasmine!!! Many HATED this ending arc, but I really loved it. Loved the tension between the idea of fake Vs *real* happiness...

And the scene in the Finale when Angel sends Connor to his *fake* family...making the exact OPPOSITE choice for Connor than he did for the Fang Gang....

Okay, I'm gonna have to just do one of those *first thing I remember* about each...which will probably branch out all over the place...


Conviction

LOVED the teaser...just like the first eppy of the show...but now filmed and with W&H PR handling Angel's missions... All thru the eppy I'm wondering...this is creepy...they can't really be themselves in *the Belly of the Beast*... Then!!!!!!! Spike flashing to life in the office... :woot:


Just Rewards

Spike does NOT betray Angel...but zings him with many smart assed comments...


Unleashed

A werewolf in LA - Nina is introduced. Hmmm, what do I think of Nina??????


Hell Bound

Grisly....naked Spike but not so hot....Uber creepy Pavayne locked in the vault forever....


Life of the Party

Poor Lorne....Gunn marking his territory....Angel and Eve... EEEWWWWW....


The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco

I loved this episode even though it made less *logical* sense than usual....


Lineage

Poor Wes...brings all the changes over the years in focus. And yet, he still calls his mum and dad at the end....


Destiny

Awesomely awesome...Spike's first instinct when he realizes he's corporeal..... :fall: Always love to see Drucilla and flashbacks...

And, of great significance, and of huge fandom focus...Spike kicks Angel's ASS@!!&*^@! (and wins a meaningless cup of torment...)

By now, the great fan debate about whether Angel and Co should be running W&H is pretty intense. Many think as I do: it's a moral mistake, it's not their destiny, they're all being seduced by evil...but it's a damn good storytelling plot.. Others have valid reasons to complain about...others are unable to discuss the issue with any semblance of rationality or objectivity and bleat *Hyperion* every time they lose... Yeah I missed the Hyperion too.....

Also a small but significant fanbase are really pissed about Cordy being gone, and they are justifiably able to point fingers at James Marsters' salary as the reason... I too missed Cordy...but having Spike in S5 was just all kinds of awesome, so......

One major complaint on everyone's mind...Why hasn't Spike gone to hunt down Buffy? I'm trying to remember, since it's a small scene, when Spike explains...but most of fandom thought it was weak...VERY weak. Even after S5 ends, many want to fanwank backwards there......

Reading over this, it isn't obvious, but the best thing is the relationships with the Fang Gang, especially the SpAngel dynamic....

Edited by KMInfinity, Aug 15 2009, 10:25 AM.
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Dax
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Yeah, I don't remember what Spike said about Buffy, but it wasn't satisfying. Understood waiting to be corporeal, but after that...

Time is different to a vampire, sure, and I know he's having fun with these 'new' people (plus Angel), but you'd definitely think he'd feel a need to check back with Buffy right away.
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Cheryl
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KMInfinity
Aug 15 2009, 10:24 AM
And we haven't discussed the end of S4 and the Happy Happy Joy Joy of Jasmine!!! Many HATED this ending arc, but I really loved it. Loved the tension between the idea of fake Vs *real* happiness...
I definitely leaned more towards hating the Jasmine arc. It was just a little much the way they all worshipped her and it seemed to go on forever. One funny thing that I DID like was the eppy where they all first become brainwashed by her and Angel and Connor are singing "Mandy" together but saying "Jasmine" instead. Hilarious! I'm just VERY happy that Connor's gone though. I really despised that kid. :violent:

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Unleashed

A werewolf in LA - Nina is introduced. Hmmm, what do I think of Nina??????

So, what DO you think of her? She obviously comes back at a later date. I thought she had good chemistry with Angel.

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Life of the Party

Poor Lorne....Gunn marking his territory....Angel and Eve... EEEWWWWW....

OMG. I loved this one! "Positive" Spike......."drunk" Wes and Fed........Gunn peeing all over the place to stake his territory. LOLOL! And Angel banging Eve on his office floor was a hoot. Even though I can't stand Eve.
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Lineage

Poor Wes...brings all the changes over the years in focus. And yet, he still calls his mum and dad at the end....

As I stated before, I REALLY dug this one. Roy Dotrice is such an awesome actor......I loved him as the dad in Beauty and the Beast back in the day. Alexis Denisof blew me the frig away when he blew his daddy away. Just.........wow!!!
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Destiny

Awesomely awesome...Spike's first instinct when he realizes he's corporeal..... :fall: Always love to see Drucilla and flashbacks...

And, of great significance, and of huge fandom focus...Spike kicks Angel's ASS@!!&*^@! (and wins a meaningless cup of torment...)

My favorite eppy so far......and yes, Spike winning that fight was shocking and thrilling. He obviously wanted the cup more than Angel did!
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Also a small but significant fanbase are really pissed about Cordy being gone, and they are justifiably able to point fingers at James Marsters' salary as the reason... I too missed Cordy...but having Spike in S5 was just all kinds of awesome, so......

I adored Cordy but I would take Spike any freaking day of the week over her. I think maybe they felt her story had been played out once they hooked her up with Angel. Although I'm kinda surprised if they had to get rid of anyone to bring back Spike, they didn't get rid of Gunn. I like him a lot but I'm sure Cordy was a more beloved character.

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One major complaint on everyone's mind...Why hasn't Spike gone to hunt down Buffy? I'm trying to remember, since it's a small scene, when Spike explains...but most of fandom thought it was weak...VERY weak. Even after S5 ends, many want to fanwank backwards there......

I just watched that one tonight. Spike leaves and says he's going to Europe to find Buffy but then pops up later in the eppy and says he decided he wanted her to remember his 'death' was to save the world and if she finds out he's not really dead, then what he did wasn't that important. Whatever. I realize they had to say something seeing as how Buffy was no longer on the air and SMG probably didn't want to come back to Angel for an eppy or two. And I guess it makes sense that maybe they didn't even want her to since they probably just wanted the character to move on. But yeah.......it wasn't very realistic since we ALL know that Spike would have been right at Buffy's side the minute he turned corporeal. Watching soaps helps me with this one because you just accept things in the story because you know outside forces are what make certain decisions. For a while there, I was thinking Spike may have a little crush on Fred. Everybody loves Fred these days!

I'm curious.......I watched the second eppy tonight with Christian Kane in it and he wasn't in the credits at all. What was up with THAT???
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Dax
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Kane not in the credits of one... hm. Mistakes happen. Surprised it wasn't corrected by the time of the dvd, but...

Yeah, SMG didn't wanna play... they do a fun little workaround later in the season, though... the one titled 'The Girl In Question'.

Michelle Trachtenberg almost did a guest spot, but I think there was a scheduling conflict, and then she couldn't do it, so we got Andrew instead of Dawn.

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KMInfinity
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Dax
Aug 16 2009, 02:54 AM

Michelle Trachtenberg almost did a guest spot, but I think there was a scheduling conflict, and then she couldn't do it, so we got Andrew instead of Dawn.

I was actually very glad of that...

Kinda sucks, but SMG and Joss Whedon really don't get along much. They are very careful to be polite and make reasonable excuses why things happened the way they did, but others have commented that they each feel underappreciated by the other. (I think it was David Fury who mentions in an interview that SMG would never work with Joss again.)
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As much as I find Trachtenberg mega-lustworthy, I'm pretty sure that episode was better with Andrew than it would have been with Dawn.

SMG and Joss... yeah.

I think Joss is a really great person, and just about everybody that works/worked with him loves him and had a great working relationship with him.

I don't see a lot of warmth and fuzzy feelings for Sarah Michelle. I do think she's a good actress, was the perfect Buffy, and I look forward to seeing her in other things (particularly her project for HBO... hope that comes to pass).
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Cheryl
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We watched the Andrew episode tonight (Damages). FUN! I had no idea until I saw his name in the credits. It was too cute when Andrew saw Spike:

Andrew: "You're like Gandalf the White resurrected from the pit of the Balrog. More beautiful than ever. He's alive, Frodo, he's alive!" (All the while hugging his neck......LOLOL!!!)

Too bad about Joss and SMG. I remember the rumors about her being difficult when she was on AMC but I never took much stock in them. How could anyone in their right mind NOT want to work with Joss again?!?

Oh! I almost forgot. I found a really cute Spuffy vid I hadn't seen yet. Some of them are just okay but this one I especially liked. Catchy song!

http://www.whedontube.com/video/Trouble-is-a-Friend-Spuffy
Edited by Cheryl, Aug 16 2009, 10:46 PM.
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KMInfinity
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Nice vid... Now that you're nearly through the Buffyverse I should look up some vids I had saved that coulda been spoilery...

Cheryl, do you read any fanfic?

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Cheryl
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KMInfinity
Aug 17 2009, 09:28 AM
Cheryl, do you read any fanfic?

No, not really. I've read some soap fanfic back in the day but I hate sitting at the computer that long, frankly. I'd love to see any vids that you have though! And someone, either you or Gate, said they would post articles about Charisma Carpenter's exit after I watched and was unspoiled. I'd love to see those. :)
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KMInfinity
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I'll start digging around. Part of the problem is that this is a newer computer (2007) and my old comp crashed suddenly, never to reboot again, and I KNOW I lost a ton of stuff. Some I might have had stored, but I don't *back up* nearly as often as I should...which reminds me, I should nack up my current bookmarks...
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