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Mad Men; Season 3
Topic Started: Jun 28 2009, 10:55 AM (3,349 Views)
KMInfinity
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tgir, that's a good point about the au pair not being a focus character, so maybe some don't empathize with her situation.

Dax
 
I know the au pair felt like she didn't have a choice, but had she fought him off, Pete wouldn't have taken it to the 'force' level, I don't believe.
I'm often the lonely Pete-sympathizer, so believe me when I say I get what you're saying. For the time...no, not rape. In hindsight, informed by modern views, yes rape.

I think that's what makes it so sad, for me. This is before the mantra that "no means no." So even if she had protested it probably wouldn't have stopped Pete. And to take it to the level of physically fighting back? Clearly unthinkable. As tgir said, the element of feeling powerless is key. She clearly doesn't want Pete's attentions, and has no way (in her mind) to prevent them. Would be a variation of date rape?
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Dax
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>> Lois still has her job????

Yeah, that was a happy surprise. I like Christa Flanagan a lot (but I also would have loved to see in-the-pilot-only Kristen Schaal from Flight of the Conchords again, too... she was a telephone operator...)

>> Betty found Don's secret shoebox!!!

I know! Huge gasps at the time...

>> I'm a little surprised by Don's choice of Miss Farrell to have an affair with. She's not like Midge

She's a little 'Bohemian' like Midge... she's a purer spirit than he's used to (Betty, definitely), and a bit 'out of her time', which I can see as an appealing factor to Don...

tgir - The scene with Joan was just so... ugly... and yes, she wanted to marry him (and did), but... oh. Terrible, terrible man. I do enjoy the comeuppance he's had so far (being incompetent and embarrassed), and how she got she wanted and it wasn't what she needed at all, but... nah, I don't think I'm sympathizing for Joan more because we know her (or Pete) better... like date rape... yeah... Hm. I'd have to watch it again (oh, darn...) to refresh on why I delineated a difference there...
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Cheryl
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bilki
Jun 6 2010, 10:51 PM
But I think Peggy has questionable taste in men, so the surprise quickly wore off after I thought about it.
Yo! Yo! Yo! Now THAT is about an understatement if I ever saw one. We're talking about the girl that got herself preggers by the biggest abuser of women and slimeball on the planet!

Bilki--your comments about Don crack me up.....and are spot on!
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bilki
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Episode 11: The Gypsy and the Hobo

WOW! Awesome episode! The confrontation between Don and Betty over his true identity was one of those scenes where I felt like I was sucked into the television while watching it. Fantastic performances by both Hamm and Jones. I kept thinking about Suzanne Farrell being out there in the car. Was she going to come to the door??? And Don told Betty about everything except that he was the one who caused the confusion of identities by switching the dog tags. WOW! Almost a full disclosure. That's a HUGE step for Don Draper/Dick Whitman.

Suzanne Farrell walking off into the night after being in that car for hours gave me a new respect for her. Maybe she's not a complete kookadoodledoo. Or maybe she is but she was able to keep her head straight in this situation. But I was rolling my eyes when they were in bed coo-ing at each other earlier in the episode. Basking in the glow of that honeymoon phase. It's funny to me that Don hasn't yet realized that the honeymoon phase passes, and then you have to grow up and learn to deal with the struggles of daily life.

Roger not jumping into bed with his old flame surprised me a little. Maybe he feels commited to Jane. Or maybe he only cheats with younger women. I have a feeling that Jane will eventually leave him.

Joan calling Roger put a smile on my face.

The Joan/Greg situation is confounding. She married a man who raped her. And she takes an active part in his efforts at success. Is she so intent on being married to a doctor that she'll pay any price? She's not the woman I thought she was in season 1. Of course, I still think she's great. Whatever is going on there, it was awesome when she cracked that vase over his head.
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Dax
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>> I kept thinking about Suzanne Farrell being out there in the car. Was she going to come to the door??

Yes. TENSION.

>> it was awesome when she cracked that vase over his head.

Amen to that.
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blosslover
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I think Joan married rapist doctor because that was what one did at the time. Joan blamed herself, and would not have seen what he did as wrong. SIGH.
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tgir
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Doubtless, the au pair also blamed herself and certainly her employer did. Back when I was a kid in the 70's, I remember a neighbor/family friend who genuinely felt it was not truly possible to rape a woman unless you beat her unconscious or killed her: otherwise she consented. Yes, disgusting, but not surprising. Very definitely an attitude of 'she must have been looking for it/dressed slutty, etc. Gag making, even to my 14 year old or so self.

Oh, to clarify: he didn't make such remarks in front of me, but his wife was a friend of my mom's and I remember them talking about it and how upset his wife was, even. I don't remember any reaction at all from my mom.....

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bilki
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blosslover
Jun 8 2010, 07:01 PM
I think Joan married rapist doctor because that was what one did at the time. Joan blamed herself, and would not have seen what he did as wrong. SIGH.
I can see that. It's just that my initial impression of Joan was that she was one of those women who didn't do what one did at that time. Looks like Peggy has taken on that role of turning her back on what she should be doing.


Finished with season 3. Great finale!

Fun watching them get fired, regroup and start a new agency. I knew Roger went to call Joan. Loved that she got to make an entrance. I'll miss some of those minor characters from Sterling Cooper but should be fun to see what happens with this 'new' group. Surprised they took Harry Crane. I was hoping they wouldn't. And they left Ken Cosgrove behind? Of course, Pete had to go with them. Makes sense why they couldn't take Sal but I thought they'd figure out a way to squeeze him in there. Who's the art department for this new firm?

Pleased that Peggy didn't go just because Don assumed she would go with him. Great scenes when she stands up to him there in his office, and when he goes to visit her in her apartment. I question Don's sincerity when he makes an emotional plea, though. I'm not saying he doesn't care, it's just that he behaves like an ass most of the time. Is he just 'turning it on' to get what he wants?

Mixed feelings about the Draper divorce. I understand why Betty wants to leave him but I don't want her to go. Mostly for those kids. And while he lied about his identity, I don't believe she doesn't know him. She's been with the man for over 10 years, right? She may not like what she knows but she knows him. Plus, I don't care much for Henry Francis. Other than the grass being greener on the other side, she doesn't know that Henry has any more to offer than Don. I guess she'll have to learn the hard way.

Feels like the show hit the reset button with the finale. Looking forward to seeing where they'll go from here.
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Dax
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>> I knew Roger went to call Joan.

Yeah, that was an easy one...

>> And they left Ken Cosgrove behind?

So far.

>> Makes sense why they couldn't take Sal

Yeah. Same Lucky Strike problem.

He won't be a regular this year (but they have upped Lane Pryce), but I'm confident we'll see Sal again at some point...

>> Feels like the show hit the reset button with the finale. Looking forward to seeing where they'll go from here.

Me, too, so much...
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bilki
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Dax
Jun 9 2010, 06:52 PM
>> Makes sense why they couldn't take Sal

Yeah. Same Lucky Strike problem.

He won't be a regular this year (but they have upped Lane Pryce), but I'm confident we'll see Sal again at some point...
Unfortunate that Brian Batt won't be a regular this season. I was curious what they'd do with a married gay man....at home and the office.

Forgot to mention that I was pleased Lane Pryce went with them. Not sure why. Can't say that I love the character. Perhaps it's the actor I've grown fond of.
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Dax
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Jared Harris (that's Richard Harris' son...) is awesome, and was so different on Fringe and The Riches... and it was fun how we DID come to 'like' Pryce somewhat (or all the way, even, maybe), and felt for him as he became the disrespected odd man out of PP&L... he had some of the best fist-pumping moments in the finale...

Sal's wife Kitty (Sarah Drew) just got upped to series regular status on Grey's Anatomy...

Batt is up for anything, and 'sad' about the write-off, but too trusting of (and grateful to) Weiner to complain too loudly... the small-but-vocal percentage of the internet fan audience that saw Sal's exit as 'homophobia' or bailing-out-on-a-story bother me, because I think they're really missing the point of the story...

I just think it's clear Weiner has a lot invested in Sal, and a pretty easy thing to trust that he'll come back to him eventually...


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bilki
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Dax
Jun 9 2010, 11:13 PM
Batt is up for anything, and 'sad' about the write-off, but too trusting of (and grateful to) Weiner to complain too loudly... the small-but-vocal percentage of the internet fan audience that saw Sal's exit as 'homophobia' or bailing-out-on-a-story bother me, because I think they're really missing the point of the story...


What do you think was the point of Sal's story?
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Dax
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>> What do you think was the point of Sal's story?

Well, maybe I phrased it wrong there (like there's a definitive answer - he's a character, they're all characters with fascinating stories...) - I just mean, like, your basic 'life is unfair' and 'change is slow' themes (which is an oversimplification, but it kinda works, too), and people thinking that Weiner tossed the character off the show because HE has a problem with Sal, or that there was 'negative feedback' from anti-gay audiences, and THAT'S why he cut the character, or... they're wrong. I'm sure it's nothing like that. And I doubt the story's over for good.

Don's 'you people' slip was certainly ugly, but I don't think he meant it in a hateful way... that's more of Don lashing out hurtfully when he's lost control over a situation (again, with Peggy often on the receiving end of his misdirected anger).

It's tragic that Sal is JUST beginning to embrace his true self (the encounter during that hotel fire was likely the first physical contact with a man that he'd EVER had), and... he's punished for it. Like we were saying with Joan... a lot of the times here, the characters are given what they say/think they want, and then are punished for it.

The Gods are not kind to many of our characters.

I really wanna see Sally Draper in the 70s. (Thinking of the concept of Nip/Tuck's Annie in the flashforward dream episode...)
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KMInfinity
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Dax
Jun 9 2010, 11:13 PM
....the small-but-vocal percentage of the internet fan audience that saw Sal's exit as 'homophobia' or bailing-out-on-a-story bother me, because I think they're really missing the point of the story...
I agree. And in fact, if it didn't play out pretty badly it would be disrespecting the true harshness of the situation for those times. I suppose the gripers are wanting Sal to become all empowered and righteous, and that just isn't a path most could afford to take. The alternative is to keep Sal closeted and marginal, stifled and suppressed in order to stay on the show.

I won't be surprised to see Sal back, still married, with two kids, still struggling with his identity in 1970.


Edited by KMInfinity, Jun 10 2010, 05:27 AM.
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Gatekeeper
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bilki
Jun 9 2010, 07:21 PM
Dax
Jun 9 2010, 06:52 PM
>> Makes sense why they couldn't take Sal

Yeah. Same Lucky Strike problem.

He won't be a regular this year (but they have upped Lane Pryce), but I'm confident we'll see Sal again at some point...
Unfortunate that Brian Batt won't be a regular this season. I was curious what they'd do with a married gay man....at home and the office.

Forgot to mention that I was pleased Lane Pryce went with them. Not sure why. Can't say that I love the character. Perhaps it's the actor I've grown fond of.
I miss Sal and want more of him. I think it makes a great story!

I can't wait for the new season to begin!
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bilki
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Dax
Jun 10 2010, 12:38 AM
Well, maybe I phrased it wrong there (like there's a definitive answer - he's a character, they're all characters with fascinating stories...) - I just mean, like, your basic 'life is unfair' and 'change is slow' themes (which is an oversimplification, but it kinda works, too), and people thinking that Weiner tossed the character off the show because HE has a problem with Sal, or that there was 'negative feedback' from anti-gay audiences, and THAT'S why he cut the character, or... they're wrong. I'm sure it's nothing like that. And I doubt the story's over for good.
I see what you mean. Seems like there's usually some kind of backlash when minority characters are non-existent or seemingly abruptly written off. I still remember reading bitchings about there not being any gay characters on LOST during those early seasons.

I agree that it wouldn't feel honest for Sal to suddenly become out and proud. What I like about this show is seeing these characters function within the context of the 60s. And I'd like to see more of what it would be like for Sal to come to terms with himself in this era. I'd also like to see more of Carla and what it's like for her to deal with what's happening around her. Such an interesting time of change for these characters. Unfortunately, they only have a limited amount of time to be on screen.
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Dax
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>> about there not being any gay characters on LOST during those early seasons.

Tom, but he was a 'bad guy'. But yeah, it's one of those rare ABC shows without a significant gay presence...

>> I'd also like to see more of Carla and what it's like for her to deal with what's happening around her.

Me, too - and Hollis, the elevator man has had a few good bits and pieces sprinkled in...
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