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Mad Men; Season 3
Topic Started: Jun 28 2009, 10:55 AM (3,351 Views)
Dax
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-09/mad-men-laid-bare/
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KMInfinity
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huh. That really gave me some food for thought. thanks Dax. Unless I'm misreading, MW sure seems to have a kinder, softer view of Betty than most of us here. Dare I say....there's almost an unconscious element of sexism and paternalism in his view of the character.

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Krystal
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Seemed that way to me too. I found her worthless and self absorbed. In my opinion she won't grow, she'll just get older and unhappier because she will not be the most fetching thing in the room. She has nothing to offer.

Have to say the interaction between Don and Peggy was fabulous. There relationship is one of th best on the show.

Also glad to hear MW is not ruling out Joan and Roger.
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Gatekeeper
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Love this show and what a great season ending.


Quote:
 
Unless I'm misreading, MW sure seems to have a kinder, softer view of Betty than most of us here. Dare I say....there's almost an unconscious element of sexism and paternalism in his view of the character.

KMI, I also think MW has a softer view of Betty than most of us. Very strange and not sure what to make of that.

Loved that they called Joan. I just knew when Roger said 'I know who to call' that we would have our girl back. I look forward to having her around and hope that her and Roger can one day be happy together.

I was waiting for Sal and had forgotten it was the Lucky account that got him fired. Boo hoo. I want Sal back.

I was wondering if the new company wouldn't just say screw it and sell them what's left of Sterling Cooper. Maybe they will be back after a while.

I almost died when I saw Betty left the 2 older kids at home She's a terrible woman and doesn't deserve those children. She also has no parenting skills on how to soften the blow of a divorce. Yes I realize it was the 60's but still.

I love the Peggy/Don relationship. They are both cut from the same cloth and I hope they expand on that more next season.

I'm going to miss this show until it returns next year.
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Krystal
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No parenting skills is an understatement. What a horrible self absorbed mother!
I'll miss it too, the only other one I crave is SOA.
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Marg
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Dax, I loved that 'coffee line' with Don/Peggy as well. Peggy is a woman in a man's world before her time!! The early 60's were prior to the 'feminist movement'; which made it special to see Peggy being so confident with Don.

Betty is a terrible mother and Don is/was a poor husband!!
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blosslover
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Thanks for the article Dax. Board ate the post I wrote yesterday.

Joan and Roger, please MW do it for them not for me, though I will like it. :)

Peggy is the character most like Don, and with the feminism movement right on the horizon, she is firmly placed.

Was it only me, or was it funny how everyone was working at SCDP except for Roger, who was sitting there reading the newspaper?
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Dax
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-23/mad-men-postmortem-part-2/
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b158571_mastermind_matt_weiner_tells_future_of.html
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Dax
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Fun.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/business/media/10adco.html?ref=business
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Manifan
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Dax
Mar 10 2010, 01:41 AM
Oh, now that's priceless. I gotta have those!!!
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Cheryl
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Manifan
Mar 10 2010, 06:39 PM
Dax
Mar 10 2010, 01:41 AM
Oh, now that's priceless. I gotta have those!!!
Seriously, that is too cute. I want a Don Draper Barbie doll! :P
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Dax
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I like the Don and Joan... from that picture, the likenesses on Roger and Betty aren't as strong...

$75 for all four, maybe (but still very probably not, unless I somehow come into a vast fortune), but each? Definitely not...

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Manifan
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Oh, I think the Roger doll looks EXACTLY like him. Ditto Joan.
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bilki
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Episode 1:Out of Town

Sal kissed a boy and he liked it! YAY, Sal! After living under that cloud of shame and guilt for all those years it must have been a relief to finally get some action....even if it was short lived. Nice "gotcha!" moment when Don asks Sal to be honest about something and then proceeds to tell him about the "limit your exposure" idea for London Fog.

Horn-doggy Don just couldn't keep his hands off that stewardess. Typical! I do believe he loves Betty, it's just not so easy to deny those impulses....especially when you've grown up being told you're a "lesser-than."

"She's taken to your tools like a little lesbian." Oh, Betty!

Of course, crybaby Pete couldn't be happy about sharing the promotion with Ken Cosgrove. Funny that Ken was all smiles about it. That Ken sure is a handsome lad.

Joan vs. John Hooker was amusing. Not enough Peggy in this episode.
Edited by bilki, Jun 2 2010, 10:03 PM.
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bilki
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Episodes 2 & 3

Don bullying William into having Gene come to live with the Drapers was odd. Especially after it was said that William's wife was good at taking care of him. Now Carla has has another child to take care of. Loved Carla's response when Gene asked her if she knew Viola.

Stoned Peggy was AWESOME! Good to see her loosen up, even if it was drug-induced. I like her new secretary, Olive.

Pete and Trudy's Charleston was wildly entertaining. WOW! Ironic that these two are such good dance partners. Funny when Ken Cosgrove said he was going to bring a date next time while watching them dance.

Joan's song with the accordion was fun. It will be great when she sets herself free from that rotten husband.

Roger's performance in black face was groan-worthy. Jane getting drunk and making a fool of herself was satisfying, though it seems she really didn't know what she was getting herself into when marrying Roger. The poor dear is going to have to develop a thicker skin.


Thanks for the links to Sepinwall's blog, Dax. I enjoy reading his reviews. And his comments section is pretty good, too.
Edited by bilki, Jun 3 2010, 12:16 PM.
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Dax
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>> Don bullying William into having Gene come to live with the Drapers was odd. Especially after it was said that William's wife was good at taking care of him.

Yeah, that's Don... 'making an effort', giving Betty something she wants. It's a little weird.

Hate Joan's rapist/husband (who just had a bad guy arc on Desperate Housewives... joining John Slattery and Mark Moses in the DH villains/Mad Men shared cast club).

>> Thanks for the links to Sepinwall's blog, Dax. I enjoy reading his reviews. And his comments section is pretty good, too.

Did you go all the way back to Season 1? Yeah, he gives great analysis... (comments have gone a little bit downhill in the move to hitfix.com - a lot more idiots than were on his 'personal' blog, hope it evens out some before Season 4 starts...)
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bilki
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Dax
Jun 3 2010, 12:26 PM
Did you go all the way back to Season 1? Yeah, he gives great analysis... (comments have gone a little bit downhill in the move to hitfix.com - a lot more idiots than were on his 'personal' blog, hope it evens out some before Season 4 starts...)
Just started reading it after I saw your links on page one. When I go back and watch season 1 I'll have to read along with it. Are there more idiots at hitfix than on ew.com? It can get redundantly silly over there.

Dax
 
Yeah, that's Don... 'making an effort', giving Betty something she wants. It's a little weird.

In the end, I like how it played out. It was an opportunity to see Sally interact with someone other than her parents.

Episode 4:The Arrangements

Lois' crank call to Peggy about a roommate was hilarious! I haven't laughed that hard in awhile. Peggy's mother didn't take the news of her move to Manhattan very well. "You'll get raped, you know that?" WHAT??? Of course, then she turned that new television on as soon as Pegs left the room.

Sally gets to drive Grandpa's Lincoln and sneak ice cream with him! Must have been nice for Sally to finally get some attention from an adult. No wonder the poor dear was so upset by his death. I see plenty of comments about Betty being a terrible mother. Though I hate to admit it, she does seem the type who's having children because it's what she's supposed to do, not because she has any real desire to be a mother.

Poor Kitty! Watching Sal do Anne Margaret's "Bye, Bye Birdie" thing must have been a light bulb moment. It's unfortunate for both of them, actually.

It was cool to see Don try to caution the guy who wanted spend a million on trying to make Jai Lai the next national pasttime. Of course, slimey Pete was there with his hand out.

KMInfinity
 
I just think he tries SO HARD and he doesn't have a clue. His family was SO dysfunctional and it was clear he didn't have either a mother or father who gave him a scrap of affection. I see him as the anti-Don. Sure, Don had an awful childhood, but he overcame it. Maybe because he KNEW it was an awful childhood. Whereas Pete had what *looks* like a good home and he's trapped by family history and conventions and in fact had it worse than Don growing up. So what's worse?

Oh, KMI! Now you've influenced me to have a modicum of understanding for slimey Pete. NOOOOOOO!
Edited by bilki, Jun 3 2010, 05:26 PM.
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Cheryl
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bilki
Jun 3 2010, 05:24 PM
Oh, KMI! Now you've influenced me to have a modicum of understanding for slimey Pete. NOOOOOOO!
Well, get ahold of yourself, then! NO understanding for that slimey, whiny, crybaby! :violent:

I had forgotten all about stoned Peggy.......that was one of my favorite eppies.

I see someone is not "savoring"!!!
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Dax
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Pre-Season 4 mini-interview (no spoilers for 4, but bilki should wait until she finishes 3) - http://www.tvguide.com/News/Mad-Men-Seaon-1019210.aspx
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bilki
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Cheryl
Jun 3 2010, 10:16 PM
I see someone is not "savoring"!!!
:icecream:

Episode 6: Guy Walks Into an Advertising Agency

Guy getting his foot run over was CRAZY! I suppose that will be the end of Lois. I'll miss her. Cute that slimey Pete caught Peggy when she fainted.

Betty telling Bobby to go bang his head against the wall because he was bored was funny but I now realize why so many think Betty is a terrible mother. At least Don took the time with Sally to show her that baby Gene was no threat to her.

I actually felt a pang of sympathy for Lane Pryce when the guys from PPL told him they were sending him to Bombay. Perhaps he's growing on me.

Great Don/Joan scene when they were there at the hospital.
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Cheryl
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Dax
Jun 4 2010, 01:38 PM
Pre-Season 4 mini-interview (no spoilers for 4, but bilki should wait until she finishes 3) - http://www.tvguide.com/News/Mad-Men-Seaon-1019210.aspx
Dax--my Mad Man Bilki is a HE, not a SHE!!! :P
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bilki
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Cheryl
Jun 4 2010, 10:34 PM
Dax
Jun 4 2010, 01:38 PM
Pre-Season 4 mini-interview (no spoilers for 4, but bilki should wait until she finishes 3) - http://www.tvguide.com/News/Mad-Men-Seaon-1019210.aspx
Dax--my Mad Man Bilki is a HE, not a SHE!!! :P
:lmfao:
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Dax
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Oops. I don't know if I forgot, or have just ALWAYS had it wrong in my head...

Christina Hendricks (Joan) in a video by Broken Bells (DangerMouse and James Mercer of The Shins). http://www.vevo.com/watch/broken-bells/the-ghost-inside/USSM21000518
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bilki
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My thoughts on episodes 7, 8 & 9.

Peggy and Duck??? At first, I was surprised. But I think Peggy has questionable taste in men, so the surprise quickly wore off after I thought about it.

I was pleased Cooper was able to corner Don into signing that 3 year contract. It just seemed like he had too much power being able to run off whenever the spirit moved him. I wasn't expecting Don to turn into such an ass after he signed it, though it does make perfect sense. Loved it when Betty asked Don where he thought he'd be in three years, as if there was a problem making that commitment.

Don and Betty were so charming in Rome. It didn't take Betty long to settle right back into the disillusionment of normalcy when they returned to Ossining.

Sally and Ernie sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G! I thought it funny when Betty told Sally her first kiss should be special and Sally replied by saying it was already done and over.

So good to see Joan, even if she was working at that department store. Funny that she was the one to come out and deal with slimey Pete after he got nasty with the woman he first talked to about the ruined dress.

And speaking of slimey Pete, UGH! He forced himself on the neighbor's au pair. Filthy beast. How convenient of him to absolve himself of guilt by making it seem as if it was an issue of Trudy leaving him there alone.

I hate it when Don is unnecessarily mean to Peggy. And when he fires Sal. Poor Sal. I thought Don would help Sal out of the situation but Don seems to be consumed bitterness that nothing is going his way.

I knew Conrad Hilton would turn into a pain in the ass, and I was right. Ironic that people of wealth, power and influence are held in high regard but are often the most difficult to deal with.

For a minute there I thought it wasn't going to happen between Don and Sally's kookadoodledoo teacher. But he was feeling powerless at work, so he had to go beat his chest and feel like a man again. I'll guess that the end results aren't going to be pretty.

With the way Don spreads his seed around, Betty may as well have consumated her dalliance with Henry Francis. Maybe she will.

Four more episodes left of season 3.
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Dax
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>> Peggy and Duck??? At first, I was surprised.

Yeah. Ew. But I was happy to see Duck brought back into the story.

>> I was pleased Cooper was able to corner Don into signing that 3 year contract.

Fun, the episode title being the date he signed the contract...

>> And when he fires Sal. Poor Sal. I thought Don would help Sal out of the situation but Don seems to be consumed bitterness that nothing is going his way.

Don does definitely tend to lash out at others (Peggy, often) when he's upset about something else. But I didn't see any other way out of the Sal problem...

>> For a minute there I thought it wasn't going to happen between Don and Sally's kookadoodledoo teacher.

She's so gorgeous...

>> Four more episodes left of season 3.

They're all good, but the last one is HUGE...
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Gatekeeper
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bilki
Jun 6 2010, 10:51 PM
And when he fires Sal. Poor Sal. I thought Don would help Sal out of the situation but Don seems to be consumed bitterness that nothing is going his way.
I was so sad to see Don not stick up for Sal. It just broke my heart. I don't want to say too much once again until you've finished Bilki. I'm so happy you are enjoying them and getting caught up to us! :yes:
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KMInfinity
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Bilki, reading your comments was such a deja vu. And now you've nearly got me all caught up and ready for the new season of Mad Men!

I love these characters despite all their flaws. That's some seriously tightrope writing...we could have ended up thinking they were ALL as slimey as Pete.

Poor Pete...the au pair affair makes it really really hard to defend him at all on any level. So, big debate at the time was that some said it was NOT rape. If you can believe it.

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Dax
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I don't think I ever weighed in on that (since I was behind and marathoning), but I'm a little on the 'borderline' of the Pete The Rapist issue... it was social seduction, it was slimy to the extreme, sure, but it wasn't quite as vile and clear-cut to me as the scene on the floor between Joan and Greg. I know the au pair felt like she didn't have a choice, but had she fought him off, Pete wouldn't have taken it to the 'force' level, I don't believe.

Don't hate me for saying this... I'm not REALLY defending Pete's behavior, you understand... but FOR ME, it falls a bit short of 'rape'. Maybe I'd change my mind if I saw it again, but my initial thoughts on it were a little less inflamed... there are a lot of reasons for hating Pete Campbell (and this event WAS one of them), but I don't hate him and want him to DIE for this, like I do Greg...
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bilki
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KMInfinity
Jun 7 2010, 05:38 PM
Bilki, reading your comments was such a deja vu. And now you've nearly got me all caught up and ready for the new season of Mad Men!

I like that. Because I feel a little bit like I'm talking to myself. But it's like a recap. That works. Thanks to you, Dax and Gate for giving me some feedback. Now where the heck is Cheryl???

Whether Pete raped the au pair would be up to one's definition of rape. She didn't want to have sex with, told she had a boyfriend when he first came over. When he returned in an inebriated state, she let him in and took him to her room. He closed her bedroom door behind her and moved in with a kiss. She didn't fight him, but it didn't look like she wanted it. It reminded me of when he went to see Peggy in the pilot.....except that Peggy invited him in.

Episode 10: The Color Blue

Lois still has her job???? Well, I was happy to see her. She makes me chuckle. Even if Sterling Cooper didn't care about her chopping off Guy's foot, she did crash through an office wall. I'm a bit surprised they let her off the hook on that one.

Peggy is awesome! After that douchebag Paul Kinsey grumbles at her for refining his idea for the Western Union account in front of Don, she still helps him out when he forgets to write down his big idea inspired by a conversation with Achilles.

Betty found Don's secret shoebox!!! I love how this show continues to not play things as I might expect. Instead of Don coming home to an angry Betty and a nasty confrontation, he doesn't show up and Betty puts the box back where she found. Then, she plays the dutiful wife and accompanies him to the 40th anniversary party. Loved all her looks of wounded disillusionment.

I'm a little surprised by Don's choice of Miss Farrell to have an affair with. She's not like Midge or Rachel Menken, who were stronger women. I had come to the conclusion that Don looked for the opposite of Betty in terms of strength of character. Miss Farrell seems to be holding on by a string. Perhaps Don doesn't see that. Or maybe he just wants a woman who isn't a blond.
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tgir
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Actually, Dax, I don't hate you but I thought Pete's assault of the au pair was even more clearly a case of rape than Joan/Gregg. Joan didn't continue to fight off Gregg because she still wanted to be the wife of a doctor (you can't convince me she actually loved him). The au pair was truly powerless: she was in a foreign country, dependent upon the good will of the people she worked for, plus the age difference. In each case, the man forced sex upon a woman because he knew he could. In both cases, it is unlikely that the courts would have considered either incident as a rape and would have placed the entire blame on the woman.

In the tiniest bit of redemption, at least Pete showed some guilt/remorse. I wonder if part of the reason you feel worse for Joan is that we 'know' her more than the au pair who was on for what one? two episodes?
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