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Mad Men; Season 3
Topic Started: Jun 28 2009, 10:55 AM (3,353 Views)
Krystal
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I can't stand Duck either and of course did not like him on DH.
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amy
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What the heck was Betty's problem at the end of this weeks show?! Her dreams were really weird but you can't blame that on her, that was the drugs.

Don surprised me for this week. Next week remains to be seen. What happened to the prison guards baby? They left just the two of them didn't they?
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shelle_cr
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213 now :) ALmsot caught up with you.

SO Betty's pregnant, when she started bleeding, my first thought was a miscarriage.

I liked 212 with all the flashback of first Mrs. Draper. Though I'm liking Don less and less, he's such a man-whore.

Also, it feels like there are some unanenswered questions. The psychiatrist Betty was seeing in the first season, it was so unprofessional when he was informing on her to Don. I wanted it to be resolved somehow.

BTW as much as I dislike Duck, I felt sorry for him when he started drinking again, and when he left his cute dog go, it almost made me cry. Nevertheless, I hate his scheming.

I cannot believe Roger is leaving Mona for this horrible Jane. Poor Joan. I think she doesn't want him anymore, but still.
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shelle_cr
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OK, I'm a horrible person, but I could not resist.

I'm in the middle of 303, but I took a quick peek at 306. Maybe not so quick, but OH MY GOD, I almost fell of my chair laughing - me. The person who cannot watch Dexter. The person who missed Mulder on Fringe because she was covering her eyes. I think I would have taken it more seriously, so I blame Roger. It was his remark that made my cry - from laugh. I do apologize to anyone who thinks it's not funny, because I'm usually that person. Except when it comes to mowers.
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KMInfinity
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lolol----a very bizarre plot twist.

Don has the potential to be a really good dad...if he'd accept that being a dad isn't primarily about bringing home the bacon. I loved the scenes with his daughter Sally. She's becoming quite a good character in her own right. And becoming a *mirror* for dad....she is her father's daughter.

I really hope Joan isn't gone for good. (Spoiler free for MM so don't tell me!!!!!)
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shelle_cr
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Joan is staying. PERIOD.

They cannot let her go. She's my fave and the prettiest. They have to bring her back somehow.
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Manifan
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This last show was something else. Wish I could get hubby interested in watching, but I think the show is too slow for him and wouldn't hold his interest. He's not into character studies.

The mower thing was a bit much. Would anybody really have done that in the 60s? In any case, it did make for interesting story.

Right now I am feeling just awful for poor Sally. She's still grieving over the loss of her grandfather and is not adjusting well at all to her new baby brother. I could understand her screaming when she saw the doll. I'd've been freaked if I'd thrown something out the window and it was the first thing I saw in my room when I woke up. Her dad should have told her he brought it in so she didn't think a ghost had done it. That poor kid is going to be majorly screwed up.
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Krystal
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Yes, they would have done something that stupid. I really have to say this episode rocked! Joan has got to stay!

I feel so sad for the little girl. Don is a much better parent than Betty. Loved the line "she's a child, she'll get over it".
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Marg
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Krystal
Sep 24 2009, 12:26 AM
Yes, they would have done something that stupid. I really have to say this episode rocked! Joan has got to stay!

I feel so sad for the little girl. Don is a much better parent than Betty. Loved the line "she's a child, she'll get over it".
Good post, Krystal. Do agree people did stupid/silly things in the 60's just as much as they do today.

When Betty made that comment about her daughter 'just being a child, and she will get over it'. Compared that to today when the parents would have her in therapy for years. Parenting attitudes and behaviour has definitely changed.

Don is trying to be a good father and reassure his daughter, much more so than Betty. But Don should have told her that it was he who had put the doll back in her room.
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Krystal
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Agree about the doll, it was like it showed up and she did not see him bring it in so you can imagine a kid freaking out. Have to say there ought to be a happy medium with child raising,. I don't care for the "she'll get over it" but the major therapy sessions etc nowadays are carried way too far.

Interesting article in the NY Times about kids being so over protected now, they can't play outside or walk to school. Everyone is paranoid about abductions but stats show there are no more now than there were 40 years ago, it's just now you hear about them constantly. It's no wonder these kids today are still living with their parents forever.
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Gatekeeper
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What a great show. Loved Rogers reaction with the lawnmower blood. LOL! Can you blame him? He was left off the org chart.

Joan must come back. I just love her. I just hope she leaves that scumbag of a husband soon.

Betty is a terrible mother but so true of how 'some' mothers were back in the day. I also think Don tries really hard with being a good dad but he just doesn't get it. They definitely didn't have the billions of resources back in those days. I believe Dr. Spoke was the only book on child rearing and the bible for a lot of mothers. :huh:
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Krystal
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Yes, Dads were really expected to go out and earn a buck and not much more. I remember my Dad having very little to do with rearing me, he worked all of the time, yet one time I had a really bad spill on my bike, blood everywhere, and he was the one who cleaned me up. My mother was too hysterical. (Nowadays though, the kid would have been rushed to the ER and given 1,000 scans.)
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shelle_cr
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Gate, Roger was hilarious, wasn't he?

As for Joan, I felt so sorry for her when the husband (fiance) raped her. It was jsut terrible. I wanted someone to storm in and kill him. Did I miss something later, did they talk about it?
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Gatekeeper
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shelle_cr
Sep 25 2009, 11:03 AM
Gate, Roger was hilarious, wasn't he?

As for Joan, I felt so sorry for her when the husband (fiance) raped her. It was jsut terrible. I wanted someone to storm in and kill him. Did I miss something later, did they talk about it?
I love Rogers humor. Sorry if it offended anyone but I found it perfect. :P

No they didn't talk about Joan being raped. They actually jumped in time from her being engaged to married so we don't know how that happened. Joans husband is a bastard and deserved to be shot. It's interesting how she's a cool cucumber at work but when she's with him she looses her rough exterior. Hopefully she'll shoot him but not go to jail! ;)

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shelle_cr
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What else do we know about him apart from that he's a bastard?

You're right, it's horrible how powerfull she is at work, but tolerates this in private. Though it was a different time back then.

I think shooting him is not bad enough. Also, I want someone to find out and save her. Not sure whether I want her with Roger or not, as it's hard to tell how he would treat her as a wife in term of fidelity, but I can see him protecting her as a damsel in distress.
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Gatekeeper
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shelle_cr
Sep 25 2009, 12:41 PM
I think shooting him is not bad enough. Also, I want someone to find out and save her. Not sure whether I want her with Roger or not, as it's hard to tell how he would treat her as a wife in term of fidelity, but I can see him protecting her as a damsel in distress.
I like the idea of Roger coming to her rescue. I think he would be good to her now that he's taken a ride on the jail-bait train and realizes the little ho isn't his mental equal. :P
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shelle_cr
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Men can be so stupid.

As this is "what I wanna see on MM" day, there is another fantasy I have. Joan beating Jane somehow, in a clasy way of course, but i want Joan to expose Jane as the biggest tramp in NY, publicly humiliate her. Roger chosing Joan in front of everyone, after beating the crap out of that rapist. Something like this.
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blosslover
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Joan has to come back to Sterling Cooper. Where Roger's name ended up being on the ORG chart as he was forgotten was amusing.

Nice that Pete was the one who held Peggy when she fainted.
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Krystal
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OK, the 27th show was very very good. Don driving with the glass of booze, what a scream. So now I think he'll have a rol with the teacher but Betty looks like she is on her way to an affair too. They are both sluts!

I felt so bad for peggy when Don was critical of her. i would not blame he for leaving but sleeping with Ducky, UGH, he is not a good choice!
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KMInfinity
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Yeah Don came down really hard on Peggy. I do like he added that comment at the end though about her being really good and now she needs to get better. I wonder where they're going with the Duck/Peggy/Pete stuff. Strictly personal with Peggy, or will she (and others?) be tempted to jump ship from Sterling Cooper. Don is definitely not happy about the pressure put on him.

The show has such a keen eye for period detail and behavior.
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Krystal
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There was an extensive article in Vanify Fair about how obsessed they are with the details. For instance someone brought in rolls for the show and the producer said "they are too big" they were not that big in those days.
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amy
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I loved the scene where Betty revealed the makeover and asked Don's opinion and he made it better!

I thought that the teacher was going after Don but after that conversation at the eclipse, I wonder. Maybe it's a tactic for her.

Peggy and Duck! What?!

Oh yeah, Betty hasn't seen the last of the guy from the governors office yet!
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Krystal
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Did not like this one as well. Did Pete rape that poor woman? I hate him!
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tgir
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Krystal, the rape is open to conjecture.

Pete helped a German au pair out of a bad situation that she caused: she had borrowed the lady of the house's party dress and got a wine stain on it. The family, or at least the mother and father , are out of town. Pete offered to 'fix' it and looked in the dress to see the tag and went to Bonwit Tellers, the (very fancy) store the dress came from. Turns out Joan is now the manager of ladies dresses: he got a replacement dress (no doubt in my mind that she'll be back at Sterling Cooper) and gave it to the grateful au pair. Offered her a drink, which she declined, saying she had a boyfriend. I missed some as hubby came in and talked to me but Pete had a few drinks on his own in his apt. and then went across the hall to the neighbor's with the au pair. She let him in, albeit reluctantly. He began kissing her: it cuts away pretty soon after. She doesn't scream or fight him off. My impression was that she gave in, not feeling like she had much choice: no one around to protect her; afraid the family would have her sent home if they found out about the dress.

Next day or so, knock on Pete's door: it is the neighbor/father of the house with the au pair. He tells Pete to lay off the au pairs in the building, especially the one in his apt. as he just spent hours getting tissues for her as she was crying so much. No suggestion from the Mr. that Pete was in the wrong other than being indiscreet. But crying all day--well, most willing partners would not.

It is clear that she wasn't happy about the sex and also clear that since she wasn't beaten senseless and left bloody and unconscious, it was all her fault and not really rape anyway.

Pete's wife comes back and wants to have sex; Pete actually looks upset and turns her down. Later he tells her not to leave him alone in town again. He looks upset and distraught. On some level, he feels guilty and knows he did wrong, although society and likely the law would never fault him.

Yeah, he raped her.

I hope from the tone above and people's general knowledge of me and my sensibilities that it is obvious that I felt that it was rape, at least seen through the lens of modern law and attitudes. But in 1962? Not at all sure it would have met the legal definition of rape.
Edited by tgir, Oct 6 2009, 07:47 PM.
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Manifan
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tgir
Oct 6 2009, 07:45 PM
since she wasn't beaten senseless and left bloody and unconscious, it was all her fault and not really rape anyway.

HAHAHA -- good one. :thumbsup:
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Krystal
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Totally right about that, in those days never would have been considered rape at all. It was nice to see joan but I want her back at the office!!!!
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Gatekeeper
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tgir
Oct 6 2009, 07:45 PM
Yeah, he raped her.

I hope from the tone above and people's general knowledge of me and my sensibilities that it is obvious that I felt that it was rape, at least seen through the lens of modern law and attitudes. But in 1962? Not at all sure it would have met the legal definition of rape.
I agree. It was rape but back then I'm not sure it would have met the legal definition. Hell they didn't use the term 'Date Rape' until the 90s.

I think Pete and Jane's husband should be put against a firing squad. I just hate hate hate both of them.

I also want to see Jane back at work. I hope she's not gone from the office for long.
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Krystal
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OK, I knew Don was going to go after that teacher. Betty doesn't know what she wants, does she? That guy is so unattractive compared to Don too.

Poor Sal, wonder what he'll do now.

I miss Joan and want to see her back ASAP.

Conrad Hilton is an ass for sure. i guess the old man would roll like nuts if he saw what had become of his crazy family.

I predict they'll end the season with the Kennedy asassination.
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tgir
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I think that what Betty wants is to be made to feel beautiful, to be admired for her physical beauty.

I think that Don is so desperate, deep down inside, to fit in, that despite giving the outward appearance of epitomizing what 'in' is, he has to push away Sal: it hits too close to home. Not that Don, as far as I can tell, is interested in sex with other men. But that he, himself, accepts, and utilizes the power that men with means have over women to get sex whenever they want, at least partially to reaffirm their high status. When Don asks if Sal really wants to swear on his mother's life/grave (??forget which) I think Don believes that Sal secretly wanted the sex, just as I think Don believes that all women really do want to have sex with him--as they do, indeed, appear to want in Mad Men.

I think that in many ways Don is hipper, more modern, more in tune with and tolerant of the social changes, he is also only willing to go so far, and that any further is too scary, too much, too threatening to the power structure that is rewarding Don for his good looks, intelligence and social accumen, not to mention tremendous sex appeal. Don has a beautiful wife, 3 children, a house in the suburbs, a woman who cleans house and minds the kids for them whenever they want, and apparently all the attractive women he wants on the side, with no strings, no questions asked. I don't think he has a clue that Betty might not be completely happy in their marriage or might go looking outside of it for anything or anyone else.
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KMInfinity
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Maybe I'm off track, but with this episode I seemed to *figure out*a couple things relating to Don and Betty.

-Betty wants something *better than* Don. I wonder if she knows a bit about Don's shady past? They never made that clear. She also clearly wants to have the affair, but it's all about HER - what held her back wasn't her vows or her latent love for Don, it was the tawdry nature of the setting. She wants romance and pampering...that lounge couch is the physical representation of what she wants, staring Don in the face and he's clueless. Not that she should get what she wants in this case. She really doesn't need Dom to reinforce her infantile views; she needs sixties style self-actualization and liberation. I'm still debating if that's possible or if the show will end with Betty as the retro, unrealized foil to Joan and Peggy.

-Don uses sex as a way of maintaining control, a way of blowing off steam. It's really a power trip for him, not a passion-thing - tgir you alluded to it, but I wasn't sure if you meant he likes exerting power over women to get sex, or if exerting the power is the point and the sex is secondary. I think it's the second. After this episode, seeing Don frustrated with the Lucky Strike mess and Conrad Hilton's flakiness, he

Don has the possibility to grow with the times. Not sure Betty does.

Krtystal, Weiner (?) has said he didn't want to deal with the assassination. Might have changed his mind, but I'm spoiler free so far this season so I don't know.
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