Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Thanks for checking out our board!

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to reading the board and there are features you can't use, such as posting or viewing member profiles.

If you join our community (or log in, if you're already a member), you'll be able to access member-only features such as creating a profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Sorry that we have to require registration, but it keeps out the hit-and-run spammers.

Join us!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features.

Username:   Password:
Add A Reply
.... and we have a new President in the USA; Barack Obama wins in landslide!!
Topic Started: November 5, 2008, 9:01 pm (152 Views)
LightSlayer
Member Avatar
Screaming Naked Hot Stuff!!! (Emoticon Guru)
Well I hope all you US Citizens who were 18 or over went out and did your duty and voted, I know I did. So now we have our 44th President, Barack Obama!

What does this mean? I 'hope' it means the change that Barack ran for.


For now lets celebrate if for nothing else the end of the TV adds!!!

:party
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own!" ~Adam Savage
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Blue Phoenix
Member Avatar
Administrator-For-Life!
Truedat! i was getting SO sick of everyone talking about politics, seeing it on commercials, newscasts, newspapers, emails...

it will be interesting to see what happens in the next year.

Posted Image
Come with me and you'll be in a World of Pure Imagination
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Seto EXE
Member Avatar
3 Day Moon
I'm looking forward to seeing if Obama follows through on his promises of change. With the Democrats in charge of both House and Senate and a Democrat as President, he should be able to get most reasonable things he wants to get done, done.

And very yay to the end of political ads...at least for a few years.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GC Rust
Member Avatar
Burn With Me!
I'm eager.

At the very least, when Obama speaks he leaves you with a sense of hope and purpose. And with everything that's occurred in the past eight years - that's exactly what we need right now.
All That I'm After is a life full of Laughter
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Blue Phoenix
Member Avatar
Administrator-For-Life!
The Republicans were being blamed for everything going wrong with the country after being in office for so long, and it stirred the citizens to look for change. In walks this guy most of us had never heard of before, who talked about change incessantly. Plus, being half black, he caught the attention of the country's minorities in huge numbers, where they've never been represented before. That hit home to many more people than the Republican's offering a female vice president, don't you think?

One way or other, it was a historical event... we were either getting our first minority or our first female to head the greatest positions in the land!

Posted Image
Come with me and you'll be in a World of Pure Imagination
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Roadbuster
Member Avatar
Roadbuster
Plus Palin was/is kinda crazy...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Seto EXE
Member Avatar
3 Day Moon
And it doesn't look like we've seen the last of Gov. Palin, from the news stories I've been seeing.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John Aversin
Member Avatar
Dragonsbane
Where to begin.

The electoral college is hardly a fair account of whether a victory is a landslide. Actually, I think the system is profoundly unfair except in Nebraska and Maine (the only two states where electoral votes are broken down by congressional district and not winner-take-all). The popular vote, which doesn't count, is a far better way of looking at actual nationwide support for Obama (or McCain), and was quite close. Low 50's for Obama, high 40's for McCain means the country is still pretty polarized.

I can honestly agree that it'll be nice to be rid of political ads for a while. That is definitely an upside.

I hav every confidence that Obama will pursue a policy of change. The problem is, and always was throughout his campaign, is what the nature of that change will be. Change isn't always for the better, though I'm hopeful that it will be. His campaign was run amazingly, capitalizing on his natural charisma and a very simple, yet extremely effective word (Change), or words as I saw later (Change we need). You won't get any argument from me that we need change in this country. That's rhetorical and even redundant, since its pretty obvious. But the type of change.....who knows what it'll be?

And yes, Obama is an amazing orator. I was so not an Obama supporter, but even I was left feeling almost light and fuzzy, or downright moved, after hearing him speak most of the time. He's good. He had to be if you look at his meteoric rise during the past 3 years. He's got tons, and tons of style. The jury is still out on the substance, though.

I don't think race played as large a part, by itself, as many people have said. I didn't vote for him because he's a Democrat and he's liberal. I coulda cared less about his looks. If I was a registered Republican, I'd have voted for Allan Keyes in the primaries back in 2000 and 2004. And if Keyes had gotten the nomination, which he never did, he would never have run. Obama pulled 95% of the black vote in this country, according to CNN. McCain pulled 4%. Black people in this country historically (last 40 years or so) vote overwhelmingly Democrat. Point is, Allan Keyes never would've drawn 95% of the black vote by any stretch of the imagination. Race helped him, but it wasn't the overwhelming factor. Youth (his) and his charisma, plus lots and lots and lots and lots of money helped him sway the vote of the youth and independents (lots of them, anyway) in this country.

It was definitely a historical event, though. Something we can all tell out grandkids about.

And Palin isn't crazy. She was the most unique, non-conformist, refreshing thing on either ticket. She got hammered relentlessly largely because she's down-homey and conservative. Nothing wrong with either of those things. A woman with less experience than her runing as Obama's runing mate who was a classical liberal feminist would've been (comparatively) kowtowed to. Everybody has their drawbacks. And the experience issue is moot, since our new President-Elect spent 18 months of his 24 month Senatorial career campaigning for the presidency.

At the end o the day, I'm doing my best to give him the benefit of the doubt and hoping, and praying, this country doesn't go any further left than it already is. Dems didn't get the supermajority in the Senate, which is a good thing. And, like in 2000, I'm going to hope that Obama is willing to be mostly centrist and will work to get rid of some bipartisanship, the same way I hoped Bush would. He let me down on several accounts, that being one of them, so I'm a bit cynical, but I'm trying to be optimistic. Here's hoping.


My overarching reply now over, I wanna use this thread to ask ya'lls opinion on something. They did a poll on the news asking the new youth voters tons of questions about the issues. They were largely clueless. Something like 55% couldn't say what Roe v. Wade even was. Many thought we'd gotten Saddam Hussein out of Afghanistan and other things of a very, very uninformed nature. And these weren't highschool dropouts, but college kids mostly. Howard Stern did a poll in NYC, asking people who they were voting for. Everyone who answered 'Obama', he then asked what they liked better about him: his pro-life policy, or his desire to go to war in Iraq. And these folks overwhelmingly picked one of the two false answers, agreeing with either policy, and not because they had a clue but because they were, well....i'll be kind and say uninformed and caught off guard. Stern did the same thing with those supporting McCain, citing his pro-abortion policy and desire to surrender in Iraq, with similar results. The only difference was that in NYC, surprise surprise, there weren't many McCain supporters.

And of course, some people brought up the concept of not allowing those who are uninformed to vote. Some folks say that people are smarter than we give them credit for, some point to surverys like this and say people are overwhelmingly dumb sheep. What kind of thoughts do you guys have on the issue?

-Lord John Aversin,
Thane of Alyn Hold,
Slayer of the Golden Dragon of Wyr
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Blue Phoenix
Member Avatar
Administrator-For-Life!
Quote:
 
the country is still pretty polarized.
agreed! it was a hotly argued election season and i can't see things settling down too soon. People are worried about what will happen next in many subjects.

but hey, i don't even understand WHY we need electoral votes if we have popular votes...



on the matter of not allowing the uninformed to vote, what do you propose? a Political Issues IQ Test prior to getting in the voting booth? :lol THAT would be interesting! It'll never happen... The Civil Liberties Union will insist that every citizen has the right to vote in our 'free' land. All the politicians can do is make themselves heard by as many people as possible. If someone isn't interested enough to follow the news in the months preceeding voting, you're never going to change them!

as for the young voters, they tend to learn the issues as the issues come to affect them. Teachers must be careful how much or what content they give the students, although they'd be the best bet to show young voters how to get involved.

i love the trick questions, especially... it gets the subject to reveal a whole lot more than just asking who they'll vote for. BWAAHAAAHAAAAA!!! i hope at the end of the interview he revealed their... uninformedness.


Posted Image
Come with me and you'll be in a World of Pure Imagination
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GC Rust
Member Avatar
Burn With Me!
Quote:
 
And Palin isn't crazy. She was the most unique, non-conformist, refreshing thing on either ticket. She got hammered relentlessly largely because she's down-homey and conservative. Nothing wrong with either of those things.


Cept the first time I heard the name "Sarah Palin", it was attached to the phrase "Under Investigation for Ethics Violations". This was several months prior to her tap for the VP spot. (Violations, I'd point out, she was found guilty of)


Palin always rubbed me the wrong way, but not because of her folksy conservatism. When you watched her rallies, the way she whipped people into a frenzy was terrifying. She's like some kind of Anti-Obama - instead of inspiring hope and a fuzzy feeling, she always stirred up the feelings of fear and paranoia.

She's also the one who actively encouraged the name calling and the disrespectful attitude that McCain had to drop the hammer on during his concession speech.


I'm a registered Republican, and when I saw the choices this time around would be Obama and McCain, I was pleased. I've been enamored with Obama since I heard him speak at the DNC in 2004, but McCain was my pick in 2000 - so I could honestly say I wasn't the least bit worried about who we ended up with.

But then McCain started changing. The Straight Talk express became some parody of it's own nature - delivering one liner responses to difficult questions, and becoming not so much a campaign of substance, but of gimmicks.

And then Sarah Palin arrived on the scene, and to quote a movie - I felt a great disturbance in the Force.


Nothing ever added up with her. For starters, the fact she was under investigation for violating her office should have maybe disqualified her - especially given the scandals the Republicans have suffered in Washington recently?

And then came the media clamp down on Palin. She was picked, then she was kept away. Completely unknown, and the Republicans didn't want anyone to get a good look at her. When she was allowed to speak, I hate to say but she displayed an ignorance of issues that make Howard Stern's NYC goers look positively learned. She had no concept of the VP's actual duties (She looked forward to taking control of the Senate, which isn't how it works at all), no concept of foreign relations (Her gaff about war with Russia was something even the greenest of Foreign Office Interns would never dream of doing), and the fact her family just fuels Tabloid sales (Her Husband's affiliated with the Alaska Succession Movement, her pregnant Teen Daughter, the situation surrounding the birth of her latest child), just made her a very strange pick.


Now, we're hearing from McCain aides that Palin cost the GOP $50,000 just on a new wardrobe, and prior to the election she was beginning to break her leash to hold impromptu press conferences whose sole purpose wasn't pushing McCain's agenda - but her own. Also the whole Shotgun Wedding she had planned for her teen daughter.


The more I learn of the woman, the more I'm convinced she wasn't picked by McCain, but forced on him by the Republican Overmasters that got Bush elected in 2000. She comes off less as a politician and more of a mouthpiece. She has Bush's charm of being someone you'd want to have a beer with - not someone you'd want to have running the country.


I dunno, Palin's just one woman who sets off my warning bells. George W. Bush, but with Ambition. That scares me, especially after eight years of unrestrained government has turned us practically into something from 1984.

I'd just as soon never see the name Sarah Palin connected to politics again.




As for Obama, I think the man has substance - but it's not the substance most people now a days are going to particularly enjoy. He's trying to steer the nation back to the 1940s and 50s era of thinking - where hard work and community service go a long way in helping build a stronger nation.

I can do nothing but applaud him for that. Especially his plan to enable College students to get $4,000 of Governmental Aid per year in exchange for 100 hours of community service per year (Which, when you break it down turns into less then 3 weeks at a Full Time (40 hour) job being paid $40 an hour).

The thing is, we as a nation have gotten pretty damn lazy. And Obama's emphasis on the common good of the nation above that of any single individual is going to rub members of the "Me" generation (Baby Boomers on down) the wrong way.
All That I'm After is a life full of Laughter
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John Aversin
Member Avatar
Dragonsbane
Let's see....interesting take on Obama's substance. If he truly doe end up taking the nation back towards the 40's/50's style of doing things, such as hard work and perserverance, then I will stump for him my damn self. Its hard to see any Democrat not old enough to have fought in WWII that holds elected office ever trying to get us back to that sort of thing, though. I'm really not a big fan of FDR's New Deal policies...most of'em anyhow. My grandfather swears by any democrat, however, because they kept him and his family from starving back in the day. We'll see. But ever since the 60's it has been impossible to seperate Dems, or anyone from the left, actually, from government entitlement programs. I'm just very worried that yet more government money will get spent on something like that. If that makes me a 'Me' generation, so be it. I work hard for my money and if I wanna give it to someone, I'll put it in the collection plate at church. Actually, we don't do collection plates at synagogue, so I'll put it in the tzedekah box, and not on Shabbat, cos we aren't supposed to handle money on Shabbat. But you get the gist.

As for Palin, she was actually cleared, literally the day before the election of any ethics violations. The guilty part came from an independent investigation by Branchflower. He was the one that reported she was guilty.

And yeah, I'll be the first to admit she was no intellectual. And oddly enough, even though I hold education in such high regard, that was totally okay with me. Oh, and the bill for her outfits was more like $125,000. However, all clothes, once used three time or so, was to either be returned, given to charity or auctioned off. Seems like a lot of money. Hell, it is a lot of money, but for all of the equality we talk about in society, chicks get judged more on looks than guys do, so its at least partially understandable her need to 'doll-up'. I would submit also that, her family fueling tabloid sales...that's on the tabloids. They're tabloids for G-d's sake. :) They can make a big stupid story about anything, and do, to sell.

I have heard from friends, but have neither read nor seen on tv anything of substance about Todd Palin's affiliation with the Alaska First movement which, again I've only heard, is completely okay (to what degree I don't know) with Alaska Secession. I got no problems with that. Despite what some might think when they read lots of what I post some places, I'm not an advocate of the South rising again. I do however, from a legalistic stance as well as one of principle, believe secession was legal in 1861 definitely and probably still legal today, based on Amendment X of the Bill of Rights, and therefore a legitimate right of a state. So that aspect of Palin (which ironically I'm so uninformed about) is a plus to me. :)

In any event, its water under the bridge. Maybe she'll run in 2012. I dunno. If nothing else, I am optimistic for the future (by force of will) and hoping that Republicans actually do get their act together. If they tried being conservative in any aspect outside foreign policy I would actually consider leaving the Libertarians and re-affiliating with them. Time will tell.


Oh, and Blue, not to leave your question out. :) I'm not advocating one way or another. I do think it would be profoundly unfair to have some sort of IQ test for voting. Mainly because a high IQ still doesn't mean you know jack about the issues. And test of that sort were enacted back under Jim Crow laws during and immediately after Reconstruction, such as literacy tests to see if you could vote. Bad idea then, not a good one now. That being said, for all that we live in the information age and such a great higher education system in this country, the average people are idjits, in my opinon. I don't mean to be elitist, and don't think I am. I just have no sympathy for people who have the same access as I do to libraries, basic education, and journalism to not at least be informed on most key issues. I can understand not being able to rattle off minutae of facts. I can't understand not knowing what Roe V. Wade even is, especially since the interview that comes to mind with that one, it was a woman! That, and some guy that said he wouldn't vote for McCain because he didn't know what youtube was. When asked if knowledge of youtube was important for the president, the man emphatically said "yes!" There's simply no excuse.

That being said, most people on both sides of the aisle, and even those in the middle, get snowed or bogged down on one issue. They get snowed and buy the hype (whether its fuzzy change or frenzied 'go get'ems), or they get bogged down like way, way, way too many folks I know when it comes to Roe v. Wade. Not that abortion isn't an important issue, but if one issue makes or breaks you on someone, you are putting way too much emphasis on it, in my opinion. Just cos that one issue affects your life (and for a lot of folks I know it does, literally or ideologically) doesn't mean its the only one that affects you. Keeping your blinders up definitely has a place. That place is not in a general election.
Edited by John Aversin, November 7, 2008, 4:32 pm.
-Lord John Aversin,
Thane of Alyn Hold,
Slayer of the Golden Dragon of Wyr
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GC Rust
Member Avatar
Burn With Me!
Quote:
 
If he truly doe end up taking the nation back towards the 40's/50's style of doing things, such as hard work and perserverance, then I will stump for him my damn self. Its hard to see any Democrat not old enough to have fought in WWII that holds elected office ever trying to get us back to that sort of thing, though.


Well, I think it's kinda common sense, at this point.

We've been living it up in the lap of luxury for a good 40 to 50 years now. Now our nation's Industry has been almost completely outsourced, and the Democrats own Governmental Entitlement Programs have lead to an entire generation believing the Government owes them a hand out of some kind.

If this nation has any hope of lasting another 50 years as a player of relevance in the global stage, then we've got to shape ourselves up and rebuild infrastructure that we've allowed to lay fallow for far too long in favor of pointless handouts.

The thing with Obama is he didn't win this election by appealing solely to the Democratic Base. He grabbed a lot of attention by Moderates on both sides of the aisle, myself included in that.


Quote:
 
But ever since the 60's it has been impossible to seperate Dems, or anyone from the left, actually, from government entitlement programs. I'm just very worried that yet more government money will get spent on something like that.


I dunno there. Really, Obama sounds more and more like a Old School Republican (Before the Republican Party got invaded by Religious kooks). His promise to go through the Federal Budget line by line and eliminate programs that don't work and streamline those that do has to horrify the more liberal members of his own party who are funneling money out of those programs for their own war chests. Not to mention the thousands of people who abuse the Welfare and Food Stamp system.

But still, if he holds true on his promises it'll help immensely. Getting Washington fat cats and the average lay about to keep their hands out of the cookie jar should help cut down on the amount of money China has to loan us to keep everything working.


Quote:
 
As for Palin, she was actually cleared, literally the day before the election of any ethics violations. The guilty part came from an independent investigation by Branchflower. He was the one that reported she was guilty.


Yeah, I heard about that. I dunno, call me suspicious but when an Independent Investigation turns up evidence of wrong doing but the Government Sponsored investigation turns up a Not Guilty verdict - especially after Karl Rove managed to tell Congress to kiss his posterior with the Congressional Subpoena and not be put in Federal Prison for it - I'm gonna be a little bias towards the independent investigation.


Quote:
 
And yeah, I'll be the first to admit she was no intellectual. And oddly enough, even though I hold education in such high regard, that was totally okay with me.


It wouldn't bother me if she admitted her lack of knowledge and was going to surround herself with knowledgeable people accordingly. But she came across to me as someone who believed conviction could compensate for lack of knowledge.

In today's world climate, that's just dangerous. Not having someone who knows up from down Politically speaking is dangerous.


Quote:
 
Maybe she'll run in 2012. I dunno. If nothing else, I am optimistic for the future (by force of will) and hoping that Republicans actually do get their act together


If Sarah Palin runs and is nominated to be the Republican candidate for President in 2012 I'm gonna just shift myself firmly to the fence and register myself as a Independent. Cause the Republican Party I signed up for will be officially dead.

But I'm with you in hoping in the next four years the Republicans wake up, and cast off the Religious Zealots and Reactionaries that have infested the party. We've seen what these Neocons can do with power with Bush as their mouthpiece and puppet - and frankly, I'm sickened by it.
All That I'm After is a life full of Laughter
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John Aversin
Member Avatar
Dragonsbane
Why is it that everyone is afraid of religious conservatives? I'm not christian, or even Republican for that matter, but i'm fairly conservative and (I try at least to be) religious. I'm no fan of those guys on the street corners that shout that i'm going to hell, but they really do represent the minority out there. I can understand being scared about folks who preach hate (Jeremiah Wright bothered me), but I don't believe that religious (mostly christian) conservatives are bad folks. And conviction is important, I think. It just depends to me on which direction that conviction leads one in.

And yes, it seems like common sense to try to shift this country from consumer to sustainer. I think the vast majority of this country will go if they have to in that direction, but it will be kicking and screaming for many of them, unfortunately.
-Lord John Aversin,
Thane of Alyn Hold,
Slayer of the Golden Dragon of Wyr
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GC Rust
Member Avatar
Burn With Me!
Oh I have no problem with Religious Conservatives.

I have a problem with Religious Fundamentalists and Reactionaries. They might be a severe minority, but they're the ones who hold the reigns to the Conservative movement at the moment, and I Do Not Approve.

I have no interest in seeing this Country turn into the Christian equivalent of Iran. Especially since this nation has Nuclear Weapons and I shudder to think about that power in the hands of those kind of people.

"God's Will" takes on frightening real proportions, in that senario.
Edited by GC Rust, November 7, 2008, 6:49 pm.
All That I'm After is a life full of Laughter
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John Aversin
Member Avatar
Dragonsbane
The line is fine. I have been reading a lot lately that states the problem with the GOP (other than personal problems with George W.) is that many republicans are angry that the party has turned more towards social conservatism than fiscal conservatism. I can see why that would bother some people. My biggest problem with the GOP is that it isn't fiscally conservative at all. And I think, putting it in that context, that one of my biggest appreciations for Palin was that she was socially conservative, if not financially so. Every time I heard her say that issue X, or issue Y should be decided by states, not by the fed, her stock went up. When she said otherwise, it went down. Maybe I missed some stuff, but most of the interviews I saw her in had her being less socially intrusive, save on the hot-button issue of gay marriage.

I suppose my point is, its a balancing act for at least some people out there. Those who are social conservatives (and largely those who are fiscally conservative) also happen to reside in group that are either religious-right-ish, or fringe groups, like the Alaska Independence Party or others of that ilk. And while I can see problems inherent, easily inherent, with someone that governs from that point of view, someone who comes from the other side of the table is just as bad, if not worse. Someone, for example, with all the knowledge in the world but a dearth of conviction is, to me, useless or worse.

The overarching problem is that people in this country want things to happen, and for them to be good things that they don't have to work very much for. Anyone that runs on the platform of small government, states rights, and the like (see Ron Paul) will go nowhere. Its sad that it seems like principle has such a small role in peoples decisions about whom they vote for.
-Lord John Aversin,
Thane of Alyn Hold,
Slayer of the Golden Dragon of Wyr
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GC Rust
Member Avatar
Burn With Me!
Agreed. Which is why I'm at present all for Obama's plans to reinstate Civil Responsibility into the public.

"You want this hand out? You're going to have to actually do something for it."


As for the rest, yeah the change in the GOP is what's gotten on my nerves the most. I'm a Social Liberal, but strong Fiscal Conservative with a huge emphasis on States Rights. Ron Paul in the White House would have been a godsend for me, but since Ron didn't have a snowball's chance in a blast furnace, I opted for Obama.


I'd also like to see someone take a hammer to things like the Patriot Act and the Department of Homeland Security, both of which were created through fear and paranoia, and severely undercut the freedoms and liberties expressed in both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

They could have been created with the best of intentions, but it'll only take one person with ill will to utilize both to transform this country into something out of George Orwell's nightmares.
All That I'm After is a life full of Laughter
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
John Aversin
Member Avatar
Dragonsbane
Ya know, you can disagree with terrorists all you want. And I do. But when they're just plain dumb...well, they're just plain dumb. Take the Al-Quaeda number two guy. I can say his name but not write it, so I won't even try. But he came out the other day, calling Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, and Barack Obama 'house negroes'. Actually, his words translated as 'house slaves', but it was translated in some circles as 'negroes'. Either way, what a dumb-ass. I mean, this is gonna be the commander-in-chief for the next 4 years and, though I don't wanna paint Obama as a pacifist or anything, he seems like he has the potential to be far less hawkish than Bush. So you're gonna go and throw racial insults at him? You're already one of the most wanted men in the world, but explain to me how that helps your case?

It boggles my mind. Truly.
-Lord John Aversin,
Thane of Alyn Hold,
Slayer of the Golden Dragon of Wyr
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GC Rust
Member Avatar
Burn With Me!
What do you expect from a organization that sees no harm in killing innocent civilians? And I'm getting the feeling Al Queda's getting skittish. They haven't been in the news lately, but with the state of the world's economy and now a US leader that will likely enjoy international support once again...

Smart money is to go underground and wait. I hope they don't. World's on such a hair trigger right now that if Al Queda gives it cause to, the other nations of the world will come down like the Hammer of a Enraged Deity just to distract from their own worries.
All That I'm After is a life full of Laughter
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
« Previous Topic · The Road Less Travelled · Next Topic »
Add A Reply