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A Song of Fire and Ice; Another Fantasy series for consideration
Topic Started: December 19, 2010, 2:39 pm (375 Views)
alicelouise58
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I read the other thread for Wheel of Time. I am just starting that series.

Another series for consideration is the Song of Fire and Ice Series by George RR Martin. It is going to be a mini series on HBO starting march 2011.

The four books(so far) are:

1. A Game of Thrones
2. A clash of Kings
3. A Storm of Swords
4. A Feast for Crows

The strengths of this series are the characterization and the plots. Martin draws on the events of English History, such as the War of Roses and the Hundred Years War and puts it in the Fantasy World of Westeros. Westeros is an island kingdom with many similarities to Medieval England.

There are Five houses, Lannister, Stark, Targeryan, Greyjoy, and Baratheon; fighting for the Iron Throne. This has Westeros in a ruinous civil war. They ignore the greater threat beyond the Wall. Unlike LOTR the various houses do not put aside their differences.

The weaknesses are much the same as Robert Jordan's WoT. There are 4 War and Peace sized volumes and the final denouement is nowhere in sight. The last novel was published in 2005. It's no accident that George RR Martin and the late Robert Jordan were great friends.

Just a warning this may not be everyone's cuppa. It is adult fantasy. There is explicit sex and violence. The heroes are much less than perfect. The fantasy world, in the word of one poster at The Tower of the Hand website, is a very chaotic neutral milieu.
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However, it is these books that have drawn me back into the fantasy genre and sparked my interest in writing.
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GC Rust
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A Song of Fire and Ice is good. Or, at least, some parts of it are good.

My biggest problem is, by the end of A Storm of Swords, I was all out of characters to root for. Only two Characters I really cared for their story arcs, and more and more of the supporting cast was getting the limelight. Plus, the massive wait between books. I gave up waiting for A Feast for Crows and haven't read it yet.

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I would definitely recommend at least giving A Game of Thrones a go. Read it back in College and I couldn't help but describe it as Tom Clancy meets Lord of the Rings.
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Blue Phoenix
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Hey, it sounds interesting. Explicit sex and violence, well, those are fine, but i'm not so keen on cruelty. Thanks for the warning regarding the first book.

Tell me about YOUR feelings regarding the books. Are you enjoying them merely because they reflect/retell European history, which I know you are quite familiar with? Would you recommend them to someone who doesn't know a thing about history (me, lol)? What would people find appealing about the books?

If George RR Martin and Robert Jordan were friends, i hope Martin takes a cue from Jordan dying without finishing his series, and gets it finished. It would be a travesty to leave popular series undone forever...

As for your interest in writing, is your present fanfiction.net story your first attempt at actually writing down a story that's in your head? I'd like to know more about your background with writing...


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Blue Phoenix
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BWAHAAHAAA!!!

Rust, you beat me by seconds in posting... :p

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GC Rust
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Blue Phoenix
December 19, 2010, 6:25 pm
Hey, it sounds interesting. Explicit sex and violence, well, those are fine, but i'm not so keen on cruelty. Thanks for the warning regarding the first book.
The cruelty exists, but it happens for a reason. One specific example I can think of from the series, it's the entire foundation of the character. But mostly it serves to reinforce that this is a world that's little more civilized from Barbarism.

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What would people find appealing about the books?


Well, expanding on my earlier comment about "No one left to root for", I do like that Martin breaks his tale into Chapters focusing on a single character. It allows you to get into all the player's heads, but it also means that if certain characters are off doing their own thing, you can effectively skip their chapter without missing a beat with the rest of the story.

Specifically, I never cared for Stark's youngest daughter and skipped all her chapters. It never messed with the flow of the story.
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Blue Phoenix
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Now, THAT is an interesting concept... Focus on the viewpoint of a single character at a time, and really get to know them. BUT i can see you have to keep each character an integral part of the plot (or sub-plot, but something important) in order to keep the reader tuned in.

But just how many important characters have been killed off, that you have no one left to root for, Rusty?

Is that where you got the idea of a chapter per person for your present story, Alice? I liked it already, now I want to know more, similar to Salvatore's 'Cleric Quintet' series that taught me a lot about large (5 novels) story arcs that truly bring the story together without a lot of fluff and fill, yet each book gives you enough of a separate story that you feel satisfied when a single book is done.



btw, how can they do a movie on this if the series isn't complete? Are they focusing on only one book?

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alicelouise58
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Thank you, for your responses and queries. As for the questions about "A Song of Fire and Ice". You don't need knowledge of European History to enjoy this series. What most readers will find appealing about these books are the characters. I have some favorites. They are Ned Stark, Tyrion Lannister, Jon Snow, Ser Davos Seaworth, and Danyreus Targaryan. I liked these characters so much; I'd skip other chapters just to get to them. Other characters chapters do move the plot. Those chapters belong to Catelyn and Sansa(these two are among the least liked among fans, but, not myself).

GC Rust, just to be fair, the chapters with Arya are probably developing an arc within the story. If, GRRM does finish his series it will all come together. This is my opinion at this time. I do agree that right now it seems a useless tangent.

Blue Phoenix, I did get the idea of writing from a character's POV from these books. Just for myself, it seems the easiest and most enjoyable way to write. I got my idea to write by reading stories on sites like fanfiction.net. The first one was "Going Native" by rap451 or 541. It was a Star Trek TNG/nuBSG Crossover. The premise of the story was that one of Galactica's crew was a Star Fleet Officer that crash landed on the 12 Colonies before the Cylon attack. It had strong character interaction and every possible character interaction. The plot, though, was slow and seemed secondary. Then I ran into the stories of penny4him. Those stories did get me to read the Drizzt stories along with that old paperback of "The Crystal Shard".

RAS seems to write well with an overview. He's very good at intra chapter transitions from one character to the next without creating confusion. This all the while moving the plot from Point A to B to C.

The HBO series is based on the first book "A Game of Thrones" . The HBO website has some pretty good trailers. They have Sean Bean playing Ned Stark :D yay!
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Blue Phoenix
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" I liked these characters so much; I'd skip other chapters just to get to them. " ~Alice

BWAAHAAHAA!!! I tried that once with Salvatore's books, when he was getting heavily into long scenes with characters I didn't care for. Big mistake. When he tied the scenarios together toward the last part of the book, I was totally lost, lol! Of course, he was writing from a third person viewpoint the whole time, whereas you're saying Martin writes from a character's viewpoint in each chapter? That's the part I find interesting... Although, if he carries that through the entire book, I would think it slows down the book at some points. Does it? Is that part of the problem of the books in general?

*resolves to check the local second-hand bookstore for the series*


Crystal Shard is a good book. Actually, it was the first Drizzt book Salvatore published. He makes Drizzt rather devil-may-care reckless (which he isn't in other books) but there's enough of his personality to go along with how different his character was at the time that Drizzt caught on, displacing Wulfgar as the hero and launching Salvatore's career.

Salvatore is good with some things, and it was interesting to read the books one right after the other and watching how he progressed both as a storyteller and with the technical aspects of his books. It's just disappointing that in some areas he hasn't developed as much as i'd like (not to mention he's a MAN and women tend to write differently :p ).

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alicelouise58
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" I liked these characters so much; I'd skip other chapters just to get to them. " ~Alice I would have to back track as well. Just like an author to put a major plot development in a POV about which I could care less.
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Blue Phoenix
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HAAHAA!!! He found a way to get you to read it all, huh? I guess that's just how writers are... :p

Well, I went to a secondhand bookstore and found A Clash of Kings and A Feast for Crows. I still need to find books one and three. BIG books!

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Cyrex Wingblade
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My brother was kind, and wanted to get me some good fantasy material, so he gave me the first book of this series. Sadly, I had gotten to a point I consider 'saturated' on this type of fantasy by the Sword of Truth series, and the... idiosyncracies really just made me want to throw it through a wall.

Admittedly, I was not the intended audience. Just a heads up to folks sensitive to the 'graphic' content.
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GC Rust
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There are parts that make me question the Author's tastes, I admit.
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alicelouise58
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Blue Phoenix
December 23, 2010, 9:43 am
HAAHAA!!! He found a way to get you to read it all, huh? I guess that's just how writers are... :p

Well, I went to a secondhand bookstore and found A Clash of Kings and A Feast for Crows. I still need to find books one and three. BIG books!

Yes, do get A Game of Thrones and read that first. If all else fails, there is the public library.

I was fortunate enough to get a Barnes & Noble Nook for Christmas. :party GRRM's series made that reading device weigh more!

There is also all of Drizzt and Wot on the device.
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alicelouise58
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GC Rust
December 23, 2010, 5:47 pm
There are parts that make me question the Author's tastes, I admit.
Rust, other lovers of straight up adventure/sword play have asserted the same of A Song of Ice and Fire series.

I would not recommend this to younger readers of fantasy because of graphic descriptions detailing
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alicelouise58
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BTW, I hope everyone had a very Merry Christmas! Now on to the New Year and reading these books on the B&N device!
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GC Rust
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alicelouise58
December 27, 2010, 6:05 pm
GC Rust
December 23, 2010, 5:47 pm
There are parts that make me question the Author's tastes, I admit.
Rust, other lovers of straight up adventure/sword play have asserted the same of A Song of Ice and Fire series.

I would not recommend this to younger readers of fantasy because of graphic descriptions detailing
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.
My biggest issue - and probably the one that made me put the series down and never pick it back up again was

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Blue Phoenix
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...ya know, all that kinda makes me wonder why i bought the books... :p

i hope there are positives about the series that make it worth reading!

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alicelouise58
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Blue Phoenix
December 28, 2010, 9:10 am
...ya know, all that kinda makes me wonder why i bought the books... :p

i hope there are positives about the series that make it worth reading!

There are many positives. There are the characters of Tyrion, Dantreus, and Jon Snow. Many characters evolve; such as Jaime Lannister. The narrative makes the imagery come to life.

There are many plot arcs. They are not hard to sort out though.

Like any series there are pluses and minuses. It is with good reason that George RR Martin along with Robert Jordan have been called American Tolkiens.
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GC Rust
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Oh absolutely. Just because it didn't "Click" with me by no means makes it a poor story. It's a bloody amazing story is what it is. A Game of Thrones is on my personal "Recommended Reading" List when I suggest titles to others.

I remember when I read A Game of Thrones - In High School? College? I honestly can't recall at the moment - but I described it to someone as "Tom Clancy meets Lord of the Rings".
Edited by GC Rust, December 28, 2010, 10:54 pm.
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Blue Phoenix
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I'll continue to look for the other books, and read them in order. I'm really curious about reading these after seeing everyone's opinions.

Well-defined plot arcs are definitely a plus.

Cyrex, I'm assuming it was the perved sex part that annoyed you? I could see why, although that seems to have been common in midieval history, no?

'Tom Clancy meets LotR'... now, that's high praise. I love the titles of the books too, I hope they are representative of the overall themes within.

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