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The laws of athesia; There will need to be a legal and judicial system discussed.
Topic Started: 13 Mar 2012, 17:18 (849 Views)
Dargan Drosilan
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Declan Doyle
This is a subject that has been broached before and in light of recent events and the fact that two of our members now face very heavy charges namely : 2 counts of murder, 1 count of attempted premeditated murder, 5 counts of assault and battery with a deadly implement and one count of perversion of humanity (read fantasy race generalisation as human language has no analogue) these charges are very serious and there is a chamber of judges being formed deal with them.

This however does mean we will actually need a set of laws in place over the lands of athesia that will supersede origin law and account for it where necessary. Those who follow the rule of King Kiya will be subject of these laws whether or not they are in lands that are considered under his rule.

The only thing left is to suggest the laws at this time the mains few being thus:

Murder, and any attempt therein that is not under self defence.
Manslaughter, and any death related to gross negligence.
Assault, with in the preview of murder.
Rape.
Arson, and other wilful destructions of property.
Grand larceny, Where it can be proven.
Perversion of life, any attempt to use ones strength or powers to change something from what it was against it's will.
Excessive cruelty, towards the defenceless.

The rest of this discussion is to determine additional crimes of equal severity, and to determine the severity of punishment that is to be standardised. The god curse method in most of these situations was always solved by a fight to the death the victor being either cleared of wrongdoing or the wronged though others are free to challenge as well.but I'm not sure that that will always apply.
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Ceryndra Silverflame
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Alice Morris
The problem with assigning punishment, as you say Dargan, is that different regions have different ways of dealing with things. I think this is the problem we faced last time we tried to put together a unified system of law for Athesia.
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Aldrad Diago
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Drido Ethron
It appears some interesting "events" have happened in my absence, but I agree, these systems of law seem fair and just.
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Dargan Drosilan
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Declan Doyle
Indeed that is the case and It may mean that we have to ignore origin laws in the lands of athesia or allow the punishment to be that of the defendants home land which would be fair, it's just that we need to understand what the punishments for these crimes are in the lands one way or the other, If that means that there are up to 7 different punishments for a crime so be it as long as we can agree that these are crimes that require punishment.
Edited by Dargan Drosilan, 13 Mar 2012, 17:33.
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Asthvan
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Benjamin Smith
Some queries about the list. Firstly of "excessive cruelty, towards the defenceless"; would it not be better to simply restrict excessive cruelty? Also, I must wonder how we would define excessive cruelty, as well as how we would define grand larceny? Would we each implement our own definitions of the terms, or can a more specific definition be defined? I am also not sure that "perversion of life" is necessary; it is more a form of assault than a different type of crime from what I can see. Finally, there is a worrying implication that only grand larceny states "where it can be proven"; surely no crime can be determined to have occurred unless it is proven, else we risk the punishment of innocents.

As to the assignment of punishment, it would seem this is a more difficult issue to define; perhaps if we were to determine severity of the crimes and thus seek for the crimes to be punished still according to the lands own methods, but with the relative severity of punishment matching the relative severity of the crimes?

Finally, for actions taken by those outside their lands we should determine whether we seek to treat them under the laws of the land they are from or the land in which the crime has been levied? I would favour using the law of the land in which the crime was committed
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Tacitus Ajax Liber Silvanus
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I would agree with the list and suggest that the Council of Judges would first decide on the guilt, taking into account mitigating factors, and suggest punishment which would be partially based on what the council thought the intent of the accused was, partially based on the race of the person (they can be judged by the standard of their peoples) and partially based on the race of the person they would have perpetuated the crime against.

I would further suggest that since this is a body of judgement, their decision, whatever it is, would set a precedent of law that all subjects of Athesia must abide by. I would say that this Council of Judges should be convened not only for those crimes listed above, but for any future crime which may arise.

I feel that there is one crime which Dargon has not listed, but which should be put on the list of common law crimes (laws that are common for all the people of Athesia and thus are not limited by boundary of land or custom). This crime would be Treason, the selling of our secrets to enemies of Athesia for personal gain, sabotaging of our efforts to protect Athesia, and foremost of them plotting to tyrranise the people of Athesia and subjucate them.
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Tacitus Ajax Liber Silvanus
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Of course, we must judge all under the assumption of innocence!
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Varis Liadon
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Chris Burton
I think each person should be judge by their own land. For example if I was to do something wrong, i should be judged by the heroes of the broken lands. The only way this system would not work is if you assume that all heroes from a given location are "wrong" and that's where we get a "race" issue
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Flint Flagon
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Robert Lower
Varis Liadon
13 Mar 2012, 17:45
I think each person should be judge by their own land. For example if I was to do something wrong, i should be judged by the heroes of the broken lands. The only way this system would not work is if you assume that all heroes from a given location are "wrong" and that's where we get a "race" issue
It's a fair point. If Marcellus was being judged solely by Dead Wasters on breaching our laws on necromancy....well...
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Tacitus Ajax Liber Silvanus
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I think we are talking in this case, not about petty crimes, or differences in customs, but on the extreme acts which none could doubt the evilness of, such as murder or treason. In this case, when the crime might not have been done against a member of his own, it would be necessary to have several of the peoples of Athesia stand in judgement. However, I agree that at least one of the accused people must be one of the judges.
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