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Thanya; A couple of ideas for changes to Thanya
Topic Started: Mar 13 2008, 03:22 PM (443 Views)
EilDard
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Ramentep, Master of the Jaffra Guard, Bastion of Ra
Here follows are couple of ideas, developed to make them more viable and interesting, for additions or changes to Thanya. I am primarily posting for a yay/nay from the refs, but that doesn't stop other players from giving opinions or making suggestions (especially if it makes the refs more likely to accept the ideas!:D). I don't want it to be thought that just because the ideas are long and well developed, that I am, in any way, writing this is factual addition. I put in the 'Suggestions' forum, because it is a suggestion.

Both the ideas are based on elements of Mesoamerican history. First, an idea for the history of Thanya, which is based on a liberal interpretation of the abandonment of Machu Pichu. Secondly, a calendar system, based on the Mesoamerican Long Count Calendar, though, I am hoping, a lot simpler and easier to understand. Both were intended to give a bit more depth and tradition to the country. I have done a lot of name dropping, to make the text seem more realistic, and to give a bit of flavour to it. In the history section, I have named a few historical figures that previously had no name. These are, like everything else here, suggestions, and, can be changed easily enough. The names in the calendar section are a little more carefully designed, linguistically speaking, (though not much more carefully! :-p) They're just as open to change, but I may explain a few reasons why things are named the way they are if changes seem a little odd to me.



THANYAN HISTORY

Today, Thanya is an almost barren wasteland, with seas of rolling dunes, rocky fields embedded in sand plateaus, and vicious sandstorms that routinely rip across the blasted landscape. The only life to be seen is either high specialised for life in such an empty land, or makes its life around the few oases that are not claimed by the Thanyan people. It seems inconceivable that Thanya did not always consist of the desolate barrens it has now. Though, it is true, there has always been a wasteland to the far south, where the graves of some unknown peoples were plundered to create the first undead armies, there is a much more tragic story behind the desertification of the rest of the country.

Where today stands the civilisation of Thanya, there was once a verdant and lush jungle, rich in life and resources, easily able to support the villagers that dwelt among its titanic trunks, even as they spread and banded together. After the foundation of Theba, the kingdom of Thanya continued to spread rapidly, with other large settlements springing up to support the growing needs of the country. Each of these towns grew and spread, cutting back the forest around them to make way for vast plantations to support their swelling populations. Agriculture on this scale has rarely been seen in the history of Athesia. As this work continued, the Mage-Priests of Geb warned that a great destruction would befall them if they continued to expand at their current rate, but the threat of the undead encroaching on their southern borders was too dire to ignore. Theba grew to a thriving city, the other towns spread, the jungle was cut back, further and further.

The undead were repulsed by the efforts of the Pharaoh and the use of Glyph Magic, and the new Pharaoh, Irit-Seph tried to heed the advice of the mage-priests, but the damage was already done. The Glyph of Life drawn by Pharaoh Aten-To to fend off the undead had nourished the plantations, and indeed all the surrounding plant-life, to the point where, over the next few months, the massively overgrown plants stripped the already drained soil of its remaining vitals. The Oasis of the Clear Spring’s connection to elemental plain of water helped it recover incredibly quickly, but the Mage-Priest spent many weeks vitalising the soil around the other oases, and to their credit, these waters and the soil around them remain, to this day, some of the most fertile in Athesia.

Nonetheless, the mighty plantations that supported the cities were lost, and famine hit many of them hard. When the few days of rain finally came later than year, they washed away the topsoil and leaving the land exposed to the harsh Thanyan sun. Many fled to Theba, many died attempting to do so, and many simply starved to death in their homes. The Pharaoh’s greatest wisdom held the country back from complete chaos in these trying times, and uprisings were narrowly averted several times.

A small part of the ancient jungle still survives in the East of Thanya, and Pharaoh Irit-Seph declared those areas to be their sacred charge from Ra and Geb himself, to protect it at all costs, as penance for their over-sight, however necessary it was. Mage-Priests of Thoth maintain there must have been a more balanced way to fight the undead, while followers of Ma’at claim it was the price for their victory: a price that they pay each and every day as they live in this harsh and barren landscape. For this reason, more than any other, Thanya can forgive the slights of other nations and strive, having seen the long-lasting destruction that can be brought by preoccupation with war, no matter how necessary it is, destruction that last long after the deaths of the soldiers. When Thanya goes to war, she does so with a heavy heart.



THANYAN CALENDAR

Thanya society is heavily entrenched in a tradition of calendrical divination, using a system of calendars that predates any other in Athesia, and can seem needlessly complicated to the eyes of foreigners. The origins of this system are not known: it may predate the existing religion entirely, and many of the concepts seem to be of a more secular origin. Nonetheless, it has been adapted to suit the modern Thanyan religious needs, and still pervades many element of their culture. One of the most vital exports from Thanya was the concept of the number ‘0’, which features heavily in this calendar.

There are two calendars running parallel in Thanya, one of which contains two sections.

The first, Habkina (Day Count) is a 244 day cycle, the first part of which is simply a counting of the number of days that have passed since the day Ra first revealed himself to the Elder Shyeti, and thus began the first steps towards the Thanya of today. This is Day 0, symbolic of the infinite nature of the Gods, and the relationship between them and their worshipers. One part of this calendar is that the days count upwards indefinitely, in base 16, or hexadecimal (This is, of course, represented far more clearly in the Thanyan numerical system than in our own Indo-Arabic system – for practical reasons I am not using the usual alphanumeric hexadecimal notation). Thus a day 20 days after Day 0 would be Day 1-4, a day 43 days after it would be Day 2-11 and a day 5000 years after would be 1-3-8-8. (More help with hexadecimal below, for those that want it.) The significance of the number 16 is that this is the number of virtuous outlooks a person could, in Thanyan eyes, be considered to have. The number in the last digit of the day of your birth, in Thanyan society is an indicator of the virtues you will display in the way you treat others, or the way you perceive life.

Posted Image


The Habkina also has a cycle of 14 days that repeats itself, somewhat akin to a week in other cultures. These are associated with potential weaknesses in a person’s character.

Posted Image

To get a complete Habkina date, the number and the day are both listed, in the following format:
Digit Number, Day Name

So, a date of 2450 days after Day 0 would be calculated using the following method:

2453 in base 16: 9-9-5
9-9-5 is the numerical section of the date.

2453/14 = 175.2
175 cycles of 14 days have passes since Day 0.
14x0.5 = 2.9 (round down: to use real world example, it’s still the Monday at 2359, not Tuesday until 2400!)
It is the second day of the 18th cycle. The second day on the list is Loku

The full Habkina date is: 9-9-5 Loku

The second part of the calculation is as follows:
n= number of days since Day 0
a= number of 14 day cycles passed in n.
b= value of the integer in a.
x = numeric position of the day, which must be rounded down.

n/14 = a
(a-b)14 = x


The second calendar used in the Thanyan system, Jhazuna, is a 16 month calendar that represents the full 352 day turning of the seasons. Each of these 22 day months is associated with a further good quality about a person born in it, this one more a characteristic about their abilities, or some internal characteristic. The months are as follows:

Posted Image

A date in Jhazuna equal to the one displayed in Habkina above, would be as follows:

2453/352=6.96875
6 years have passed since Day0
0.96875(16)=15.5
15 months of the current year have passed
0.5(22)=11
It is the eleventh day of the 16th month

The Jhazuna date is 6 Mitna 11.

The calculation is:
n= number of days since Day 0
c=number of years since Day 0
d=value of the integer in c
e=number of months into current year
f=value of the integer in e
y=number of day into current month

n/352=c
(c-d)16=e
(e-f)22=y

The full date for the above day is: 9-9-5 Loku, 6 Mitna 11

To the general populace, such calculations are not necessary: if the have need of the date at all, it is simply a matter of adding or subtracting a few numbers. But for historians and other scholars, and for those in positions of administration, calculating the date of distant events can be important. It is generally assumed that both Hibkina and Jhazuna both start on the same Day 0, though no records of important events in Jhazuna actually go back that far.

The characteristic assigned by your date of birth are more expectations than a celestially enforced personality. Great respect is accorded to those who overcome their weakness.

Counting in Base 16

Posted Image

The above table shows the number of days and years to each ‘step’ of the digit represented by the ‘1’. That is to say that if the digit goes up to ‘2’, the number of days/years is doubled. So: 0.0.0.0.0.2 (or 2; you needn’t write zeros before the first number.) is 2 days, 0.0056 years. 4.2.3.1 is: 4(4096)+2(256)+3(16)+1 = 16945 days
4(11.6)+2(0.7)+3(0.045)+1(0.0028) = 47.9 years



Any queries about base 16, or about anything else I've written, please feel free to ask for more explanation.


FORMAT EDITED. Apologies for shoddy tables; I'll find a better way of doing it at some point.
Edited by EilDard, Mar 21 2008, 11:09 PM.
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Pummage
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Perinoir Pyreheart-Vespoya
Very interesting and developed idea. I approve.
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John K
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Proconsul Marcus Princaii
I like the ridiculous calendar, it appeals to the same part of me that made/adapted the naming system for Lexum :p

The beginning of Thanya sounds interesting, something for the Refs to discuss anyway. Don't know if it has everything we want in the beginning of Thanya but once we know what that is I'm sure we could adapt.
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Ansob.
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Alexander Norris
I'm not even going to start trying to understand base 16 (I fail at maths), but like John, this speaks to the part of me that enjoys ridiculous amounts of detail. :P

As an aside, I imagine everyone else, and possibly even Thanya, for every-day business (or at the very least, business with foreign parties) uses the Julian calendar - which, this being fantasy, we might as well go right ahead and make into the Gregorian calendar. In other words, we're conceptually allowed to have January-December months and seven-day weeks, although day names need to be renamed in accordance with the aspects of Corellius Larethia (Faber, Elar, Ferox, Proaliator, Sapiens, Vates and Larethia, the last being a holy day of rest - stop me if this sounds familiar ;); might be more interesting to have the week start with Larethia and end with Vates, the day of music and art).

Sorry for the thread-jack; just sounding off some ideas. :P

PS: makes me wonder what year 0 for the Lexan calendar (yes, I know the Romans didn't have the numerical concept of 0 - but the Lexans have planeshifted so much that I'm sure they picked it up somewhere, considering how useful an addition it is), and subsequently at least the Athesian business calendar, would be. The year the Lexan legions declared themselves a nation seems a likley candidate. Any plans for a timeline, John?
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EilDard
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Ramentep, Master of the Jaffra Guard, Bastion of Ra
In the process of building my character, I realised that I have a question for the Refs. How many years have passed since Year 0 (assuming this calendar has become canon). Basically, how long has Thanya been around?

Also, I realised a few things about the calendar that need expanding upon. Firstly, yes, there are 352 days in a Thanyan year, and no equivalent to a leap year. I'm hoping nobody minds, as it makes the maths much easier. Secondly, there is no calculation to convert a number of years since Day 0 into a number of days, compatible with the calender. So, for those less mathematically minded, I will add one.

a = the number of years since Day 0
c = value of integer in b
f = value of integer in e
i = value of integer in h
k = value of integer in l
p = value of integer in n
t = value of integer in s

a/2978.9 = b
b-c(2798.9)=d
d/186.2=e
e-f(186.2)=g
g/11.6=h
h-i(11.6)=j
j/0.7=k
k-l(0.7)=m
m/0.045=n
n-p(0.045)=q
q/0.0028=s

The complete Thanyan base 16 number is: c.f.i.k.p.t

If, for some reason, you wanted to do a calculation from the number of days past Day 0 into base 16, just replace the numbers in the above calculations, to make this:

a = the number of days since Day 0
c = value of integer in b
f = value of integer in e
i = value of integer in h
k = value of integer in l
p = value of integer in n
t = value of integer in s

a/1048576 = b
b-c(1048576)=d
d/65536=e
e-f(65536)=g
g/4096=h
h-i(4096)=j
j/256=k
k-l(256)=m
m/16=n
n-p(16)=q
q/1=s

To get the number of days to input into the initial Habkina equation, simply multiply the number of years by 352.

Once I know how long Thanya has been around, I can pump some numbers into these equations and get a range of dates for the current age.
Edited by EilDard, Apr 26 2008, 08:58 PM.
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W-A-T-S
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so if this becomes cannon I will need a degree in maths to play a Thayan character now?

note to self, if inetrio dies permo (becoming increasingly likely) STAY THE HELLS AWAY from thaya for future characters. much as I like deep backgrounds, there is no way that i am going to learn base 16 and algebraic equations just to get the year.

this may also have something to do with posting at almost 4am while tired, but only maybe
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EilDard
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Ramentep, Master of the Jaffra Guard, Bastion of Ra
W-A-T-S
Apr 27 2008, 01:44 AM
so if this becomes cannon I will need a degree in maths to play a Thayan character now?
Well, hopefully, once I have a range of dates for the current age, it should be a lot easier to figure out: it should be a matter of adding or subtracting a few numbers. I may work on a Excel calculator to figure out all numbers automatically, but I have *zip* knowledge of programming, so I'll need some help getting such a thing online, in Excel, Java, or anything else! *hint, hint, CS boffins out there!*

Also, if somebody *really* can't get it, I'll be more than happy to pop in a few numbers on their behalf. I've not done any serious maths in a long time, so this is something of a refresher for me too. There are people involved with this game who have an understanding of maths *way* beyond mine! :P

And also, you don't *need* to know the date to play a character from Thanya, it just makes for a slighter deeper background.
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Spirit_Athesia

In honesty, speaking as a Ref, while the idea of the special calandar is fun, it will not be becoming Canon, partly from Tom's obvious objection, and partly because I do not have time to work out the birthday of every NPC's birthday to aid in Thanyan PC understanding. Im not trying to be horrible, but the idea will not fly in a game of this size. The history ideas for Thanya are interesting, and might be incorporated while i get a chance.

For the sake of ease, all the Athesian Kingdoms use the same calander (30 days per month, 12 months, no Leap Year). It makes the game easier to ref and control, allowing PCs to focus on the story and their characters mistakes actions in the game world :D
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EilDard
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Ramentep, Master of the Jaffra Guard, Bastion of Ra
Okey day, fair's fair. Means less work for me, and leaves me with a near complete calendar system to steal back for other settings! :p

Just out of interest, how old is Thanya, anyway?
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Game_Control
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lol Thanya's fine. Getting more information going up on the site when i get the chance (hopefully some more this evening), and Thanya's Ranks will be up by the end of the day (again i hope).

So you can choose your titles, or at least think about them :)
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