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| The Venomoth-Butterfree Discussion | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 9 2010, 01:27 PM (1,290 Views) | |
| Roses are Red | Dec 9 2010, 01:27 PM Post #1 |
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Handicapped Trainer
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This was discussed in the CBox yesterday but since I'm not on all the time, I thought I'd let others know about this in case they have not heard the rumor. What is this rumor? Well, let me explain. As everyone knows, the Pokemon games started off with Red and Green in Japan. Released in Japan in 1996, this first run was known for terrifying and (to our eyes today) ugly graphics. These were updated in the release of Blue. North America did not see the Pokemon games until 1998 with the release of the updated Blue and Red versions, which is what most Americans see as the first games ever. Today, we cherish the old memories of our outdated GameBoys and the first 151 Pokemon. To us, these games are, though slightly buggy, some of the best ones released and nothing was terribly wrong with them. OR WAS THERE? As people dug back into the time when graphics were basically a few colors and bugs could destroy your game cartridge, some found a shocking discovery. For, my friends, there could be a mistake in the very first games released that has carried on to this day unbeknownst to us who cherish these old games for the $0.05 they are worth now. What is this discovery, you may ask? That the sprites and pictures for Butterfree and Venomoth were switched during production. How could this be, you may ask? Well, for one, none of the sprites had a guaranteed code. The sprite for the 52nd Pokemon may not be sprite number 52. It could very well be sprite number 6. People have theorized something had gone wrong with the coding since the first games were full of as many computer bugs as Viridian Forest. With that, the sprites may have accidentally been switched and the mistake found too late in the processing to change it. Where is the evidence of this, you may ask? Forums have discussed this conundrum quite a bit. Here is a link to one such discussion that has both sides battle it out. For those who do not want to wade through some of the most useless arguments, I will break them down for you since the entire topic is 8 pages long. EVIDENCE FOR THE MIX-UP: The Physical Evidence! [Sprites and pictures thanks to Bulbapedia!] Let's look at the actual Pokemon themselves. These are the Red/Green sprites used in the first games. How it is now: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() How it could have been: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() This is probably the most compelling evidence for the switch up side. As you can see, Venonat and Butterfree share many physical differences. From top to bottom, they share the same antenna structure, eyes, mouth, hands, and feet. In the old Sugimori artwork, the two even share similar colors: Venonat Butterfree They also have the same body style as in two hands and two feet. If we look at the Caterpie to Venomoth, we see similarities between the three. Venomoth and Caterpie have similar eyes. Metapod is shown with three points on its head and Venomoth has three "crests". Caterpie and Venomoth also have six legs. In the old Sugimori artwork, linked to here: Venomoth you can clearly see yellow spots on the back of Venomoth's wings. While Venomoth does look like a moth in some respects, its wings are based off a swallowtail butterfly, the same specimen Caterpie is theorized to be based off of (a swallowtail caterpillar). Here is also a link to the RSE sprite line-up: Hi! EVIDENCE AGAINST THE MIX-UP: Why did the designers, after finding out about the mistake, not correct it? This idea of logic stems from the fact that the problem was found early on. Either the designers did not care too much or an executive decision was made to keep the Pokemon like they were in the games for better sense or something similar. It could also just be a way to mess with people and, 14 years later make us think and theorize and raise game sales again. What are your opinions on the matter? Please note that there are some guidelines for this discussion: THERE WILL BE NO DISCUSSION ON THE ENGLISH NAMES OF THESE TWO. Why? Because those names came out AFTER the Red/Green games were released. If you want to argue names, use the Japanese ones although I would like you to know that the most common romanticized spelling of Venomoth (Morphun) is thought to be based off of the Morpho butterfly family. NO DISCUSSION WILL BE ON HOW CATERPILLARS MAKE BUTTERFLIES, NOT MOTHS. I will smack you upside the head with an Entomology textbook and kindly direct you to the actual wiki on caterpillars, the first line of the article. NO DISCUSSION WILL BE ON HOW KOGA HAS A VENOMOTH, NOT BUTTERFREE, IN HIS LINE-UP. Of course he would not if the sprites were switched, the image that pops up would be Venomoth, not Butterfree. |
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Silence is merely another language. The cry before | The lull during | The silence after Kayla's Pack Wish List GPXPlus
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| Azuldelish | Dec 9 2010, 02:28 PM Post #2 |
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Laughing at clouds, so dark up above
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WHAT IF IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND? They produced Venomoth and Butterfree's sprites, then someone said "That looks more like a moth" and "Dude that's obviously a butterfly, look at those wings!" They swapped them over on purpose, and WE WOULD NEVER KNOW...WHAT NOW? Edited by Azuldelish, Dec 9 2010, 02:29 PM.
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Profile | PC | Journey | Journey with the chickas DO WANT And if it is one minute late I will go to the animal shelter and get you a kitty cat. I will let you fall in love with that kitty cat and then on some dark cold night I will steal away into your home and punch you in the face. | |
| Roses are Red | Dec 9 2010, 08:31 PM Post #3 |
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Handicapped Trainer
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The Bluish Spring Moth That is all. |
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Silence is merely another language. The cry before | The lull during | The silence after Kayla's Pack Wish List GPXPlus
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| killaz | Dec 11 2010, 12:41 PM Post #4 |
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Owner of the Invisible Avvie
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3 words...Someone Fudged Up. I remember when I first noticed this and was all too shocked...it was like the cubone evolving into marowak into kangaskhan all other again. Also notice the fact that gastly comes after cloyster and they have some very similar details,
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KILLAZ - YOU'VE VIEWED HIM, YOU CAN'T UNVIEW HIM 0.o My Links The Team That Will End It All The End Official To-Do List Mod Since: 7th Dec 2011 Refs Done: 41 | |
| Rem | Dec 18 2010, 11:49 AM Post #5 |
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The Jester's back in town.
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To be honest I think it's coincidence with Cloyster and Gastly, I'm thinking it's suppose to be somewhat shaped like a pearl, and that's the only reason it's like that. I could be wrong though :3 |
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[Pokemon=Serpensus] Refusing to give up, or let go; No matter the oposition, obstacles or challanges ahead. Don't judge that what you do not know. Not everyone will live as a fake person to please fake people. | |
| Bcadren | Jan 19 2011, 01:01 AM Post #6 |
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I ain't no dead yet
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Original Red/Green: ![]() ![]() Gastly looking like that didn't start until Yellow. As for Butterfree/Venomoth, I've agreed for awhile. Also for Cubone/Marowak/Kangaskhan: ![]() ![]() Outside of the happier color...Kanga really isn't that different. Here's another one for you. It is known that Magmar/Electabuzz/Jynx were originally supposed to be the legendary trio and that the birds replaced them relatively late. This has lead tot the theory that either Farfetch'd or Fearow was original supposed to evolve similarly to Eevee. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Personally I think: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() might seem more valid...>_> IDK. |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I'm not writing creepy Nintendo slash fic with you especially not one between a pokemon and some angry ammunition. | |
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