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| Problems With The Breeding System | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 11 2009, 03:19 PM (413 Views) | |
| Cody Towner | Apr 11 2009, 03:19 PM Post #1 |
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Shad has decided to change the breeding system so now that instead of having the mother be the species of the Pokemon, it is now a random choice between each parent which it is. Nothing good comes out of this, except people can now breed their best male Pokemon and get it instead of trying to use a proper system. 11 Apr 09, 12:52 Shadow: Either way; it's remaining as is. I'm not going to change it. end of discussion. Wow, way to go. Way to allow leeway for members to make their points. Shadow: Good; don't get into a stupid argument because I've already said I'm not changing it. Too bad. This is something that needs to be brought into debate, not a simple totalitarian whiplash. Let's talk about the problems this causes. No one can offer to breed and sell their Pokemon eggs without taking so many extra months just to find out what species it is. Journeys go way too slow for a system like this. No one can become a professional breeder unless they acquire two of each Pokemon species. Otherwise their eggs would be random, and would require so much more time to hatch and sell. Once again, journeys are too slow. It kills any organization there is about breeding. Instead of having to acquire the female of a species to attain it, and make it a challenge, you can just simply spam any two Pokemon you have who happen to be in the same egg group, and spam those as well, all of different species. It ruins the reward out of a successful breeding. Breeding takes long enough as it is, why potentially double the amount of time needed by making it a random parent species? People will not get the species they want and have to do it all over again. And Shad's arguments to support the random choices? Shadow: Alright, let's relate this to huimans then: A caucasian woman and an african american man have a child; but your logic (and pokemon logic) the baby will be caucasian. And we know this is usually not the case. First off, HUMAN is a species. There is no crossbreeding there. Blacks and whites are NOT a species. Shadow: Fine: A horse and a donkey make a baby, you don't get either; you get a Mule. So Pokemon will now be crossbreed forms as well? Sevipers with Scyther claws and such? Shadow: I mean then Tauros, Volbeat, Nidoran M, and a LOT of toher species would be extinct I'm pretty sure Nintendo already countered this problem. This is what a DITTO is for. Ditto, the magic breeding Pokemon. So they would NOT go extinct. The point is there is no pros to this new system. All it does is fall in line with the whims of a totalitarian whiplash that Shad has put forth. And I don't like it. So we could kill the market, kill any hopes of being a breeder for a job, and fall in line with the whip. Or we could actually save the system of breeding and go back with the old system. |
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| Krys | Apr 11 2009, 03:34 PM Post #2 |
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Ok your argument has many flaws in it. First and foremost, You do not get a random Species. If you breed a Jynx and a Mr.Mime you have a 50/50 chance of gaining either a Smoochum or Mr.Mime/Mime Jr. egg. So that little tidbit was failed logic and poorly thought excuse. This actually make things much harder as you will not know what you will get giving the easiest job in the entire RP some difficulty and at the same time making it easier to breed the male only Pokemon without the added effort of every last person hunting for a ditto. There is no killing of the organization, just random outcome. You'll get either the father or the mother which makes way more sense in a realistic RP. Now pullin specific parts of a convo when there were others there that saw the whole thing is complete and utter failure. No he did not say that you could get mutated Pokemon with his example. You wanted to argue that species would remain the same no matter what and Shad and others all pulled examples to shut your poorly thought out excuse down. Now you are just acting like a prissy bitch at the end saying there was no hope for anything as this only creates a challenge makeing everything bred that much more profitable. It has little effect on who breeding Pokemon for profit other than it makes it harder to get a determined species. And just FYI this IS the old system. This is how Breeding was before it was changed. |
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| Cody Towner | Apr 11 2009, 03:35 PM Post #3 |
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Why has nobody commented? Don't just fall in line with Shad's whip cracking, actually speak your mind. If more people would, we wouldn't have problems like this. EDIT: Oops this was being typed while the last person was commenting Edited by Cody Towner, Apr 11 2009, 03:36 PM.
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| Absesas | Apr 11 2009, 03:36 PM Post #4 |
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dude, i stand behind shadow's decision 100%. I'm not taking sides, i'm doing what i think is logical, logically speaking it SHOULD be random as to what pokemon ya get. So thats my vote if we get one |
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| Brolis | Apr 11 2009, 03:44 PM Post #5 |
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Cody, there is no need for you to be upset at all, if you want a Breeding system done your way, go for it! ON YOUR SITE. This was SHADOW's site to begin with, he makes the rules. Krys is TOTALLY and COMPLETELY right. Face it, you won't be able to win a battle that you have no real evidence for. I don't think that this is going to do anything but piss people in staff off. I don't understand. If you want to breed one type of Pokemon SO badly, find yourself a Ditto and have fun. This was a stupid argument to begin with, considering it wasn't getting anywhere, and this, being a realistic RPG, would ever get very far anyways. I believe that MOST people would agree with Shadow on this one, so stop whining, get over it, or get out. Plain and simple. |
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| Cody Towner | Apr 11 2009, 03:45 PM Post #6 |
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I didn't say random species. I said "it is now a random choice between each parent which it is" I said between each parent. Not "Roll the dice, is it Squirtle, Pikachu, or Sandshrew" or anything like that.
Breeding is by far the hardest job to do, not the easiest. Now those with Dittos can't be better established as breeders as well, in exchange for finding such a rarity. Also, breeding is a lengthy process, are you kidding me? How is it easy? Now Pokemon to like each other enough. But you also have to wait out the pregnancy, and the hatching. Plus you have to wait out the 'parenting' period thing as well. Besides this doesn't fix the system. You can still spam the same species by getting a Ditto and breeding it. It doesn't fix anything. It solves no problems at all.
THose were examples he put out. I posted my arguments I put against them. I never said he agreed that Pokemon would be crossbreeds and such. Both arguments he put forward do support that notion though.
First off, I flamed no one with my post, I suggest you learn to do the same. Secondly, it makes the hardest job even harder now. And it has a lot of effect on everyone. What about those people who offer eggs for trade and such? And when I say old system I mean the gameboy system.
Logic says these Pokemon should be half-breeds between the two species, actually. I don't see any logic that supports randomness. |
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| Krys | Apr 11 2009, 03:59 PM Post #7 |
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Um...Yes you did say random Species.
See you did. Second yes tou did flame in the end saying Shad was a totollitarian and that he abused members by whiping them saying it is as he wants it. I can personally tell you that is a Load of bulshit as i have managed to talk him into changing things before. The fact that there is a harder Fakemon Template is because of me. I told him how it did not meet the actual Pokemon sprite requirements and on the new site he reflected this. There are many discussions in the Staffboards, and if there is hardly any bitchy complaints about problems in the system then it got discussed and if the complaintant brought about reasonable reasons for change there was change. The release of the rarity list is one of those. Also the Move tutoring was a compromised change making it harder for specifics instead of the alternate outcome. You saying that Shad ruled with an Iron Fist was you taking a shot at him for not apporving your idea and is nothing short of a personal flame, albeit a subtle one. Now Breeding is in fact the easiest job in the entire RP. Why? because there is hardly anything to do. Just put a male and a female together and let them do their business. Then you wait. Yes it is the most time consuming, but it is not the hardest. A coordinator is harder, a Trainer is harder. Why because they have a crap load of things they have to do in order to achieve their goals while the breeder sits and waits. Now on to the system. By the Female only System The major Con that is getting eleminated is the lack of male only Pokemon added to the list. By that system the following Pokemon will never be seen from eggs by other trainers: NidoranM Tauros Tyrogue Volbeat These are Male only lines and by the system of Male/Female creation they are now obtainable, only chance will be the decision on whether or not they are made. So from your argument you do not wish to have these avialable because the only way they are avalable is by Ditto, which I have to be honest, hardly anyone on this site can get with current RPing Talent. I'm surprised that anyone even has one. With the game system the male only races would go extinct. |
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| Cody Towner | Apr 11 2009, 04:18 PM Post #8 |
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That is not what I meant in that quote. When I said different species, I'm saying they wouldn't be the same. Obviously, I would understand that the choice wouldn't be completely random, and I didn't imply it. Put the strawman down. I'm saying Shad cracked the whip here. Up until like two hours ago, I had access to the staff discussion as well. I saw how things worked. In this situation? Shad cracked the whip. This isn't flaming him. It's simple observation. Never once did I publicly state anything like "he is a prissy bitch". Breeding is hardly 'put them together and wait'. You have to make them interact, get them to like each other, and also a trainer is down two Pokemon and a slot in their party as well when they have an egg. Breeding is very crippling to a trainer. Also, about the male only Pokemon? The only way to get an egg from another trainer would be by Ditto yes. Same as in the gameboy games. But are you saying a mod can't spawn these Pokemon? I mean with the possible exception of Tyrogue, are not very rare at all. Changing an entire system over four Pokemon is a little messed up. |
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| Cody Towner | Apr 11 2009, 04:35 PM Post #9 |
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And also a note about Nidoran. Nidoran M and Nidoran F need to stop being looked at as separate species at this point. Let's look at them as the same species. They just look different depending on their gender, as many species of animals do. So just like the gender of a Pokemon born is random, why not use the same concept? A Nidoqueen can give birth to a Male Nidoran, even if the father was a different species. Why? Because they are still Nidorans. |
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| Tygon90 | Apr 11 2009, 04:52 PM Post #10 |
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There are two possible solutions to this problem if you ask me 1 Make journeys move faster, meaning add more refs and if refs are not refing then replace them, don't just wait for another application, replace a ref who is not reffing and replace them with someone you believe can make good refs. And i'm not saying getr rid of applications altogether you need lots of help to make a reffing rpg go fast. 2 Use nintendo's system, They made it so that the mother's species is the babys species do not do anything to change that, if you ask me it is stupid. Breeders, and anyone who breeds will be forced to wait for the pokemon to hatch to sell it, and then they have to carry the egg around the whole time. What is the point of that? Breeders won't be able to make money, and they won't be able to catch more breeding pokemon, because first you have to take in to account that when you have an egg and such it takes up three spots to allow that egg to hatch. Two for the parents and one for the egg. This will make breeders very weak with their pokemon. Lets say you want a bulbasaur. Someone on the site has a and a :male. Now the Chikorita nows lots of egg moves such as leech seed counter ancient power flail nature power ingrain grass whistle leaf storm aroma therapy and wring out. So now you have a trainer with those pokemon, now you go to him and say, "Hey I want a bulbasaur, your chikorita nows many egg moves, which when breeded with a bulbasaur will be very strong. And you want a bulbasaur. Now all that time and stuff to breed your pokemon, to carry the egg and the parents, the consequences of the parents breeding. And you don't what you will get so then, you don't get that money and the stuff being offered in the beggining, you have to wait all that time. Then if you don't have a bulbasaur you just got a pokemon you didn't want your bidder didn't want, and now you must wait for someone to come along and buy it. I'm not saying it won't be bought up quickly after that since the father has all of the egg moves. But lets take away all those egg moves, then your baby won't be as powerful when born. But not only that if you don't breed the right pokemon, you have all those consequences, and it won't be bought nearly as fast with all the eggmoves. So yeah i would suggest number 2 but its shads choice i would suggest doing something to please your members which would be number two. and as said earlier i believe since this is shads choice since it is his site we should lay off his decisions i was just voicing my oppinion. But i think Cody doing this wasn't really nescassary Edited by Tygon90, Apr 11 2009, 04:54 PM.
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| Krys | Apr 11 2009, 04:54 PM Post #11 |
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Nidoqueen cannot give birth and they unlike Shellos and Burmy are different species. They are not different forms of the same species but two seperate species. And no Asserting himself when someone complains and fails to show decent reasons on why he should change it he has everyright. He owns the site. Like everyone else has said, if you don't like what he says (and yes it is easy to get him to change considering you know what you are talking about) then go make your own site wher you can do the same thing. He didn't crakc the whip at you, you walked into a wall. And I'll tell you just like everyone tells Taso. This is not the game. it hold no power other than giving us basic information that we are free to change as we see fit to meet a realistic veiw. Having the Male onlys breed with just a ditto to make their eggs isn't realistic and needs to be changed. And yes it pretty much is just pair them and wait. You have to type the slight interaction, but the Pokemon don't need a novels worth of sexual intercourse. You only need to make a few notes on some information and then let the mod do what s/he does. Even if you make a huge detailed post you aren't garanteed the egg either, though the mod may get a verbal lashing for it. And it isn't just four, though realism holds more than the game here so if they were excluded then thats all the reason we do need. But it still remains that this system you want changed is better than the games as it makes an Easy job harder. And once again it can raise the price of the egg since it isn't easy now to get a specific egg. Its better in a realistic sense and in a profitable sense. |
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| Judith | Apr 11 2009, 05:11 PM Post #12 |
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...If the game has no hold here, then why can't Nidoqueen give birth? Not trying to argue one way or the other, mind. Just out of simple curiosity Edited by Judith, Apr 11 2009, 05:13 PM.
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| Krys | Apr 11 2009, 05:17 PM Post #13 |
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I'm saying he wants games so what he said voided itself. In the begining neither Nidoking nor Nidoqueen could be bred with others. I have no idea why they made it that way in Game and by the game's breeding system that is what we are limited to. I think general populace accepted the Nidorina and Nidoqueen cannot give birth, it is one of the things I don't like when the opposite is possible for Nidorino and Nidoking. Who is to say that they cannot on this system. Its just an age old thing that was accepted by the masses. |
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| Judith | Apr 11 2009, 05:20 PM Post #14 |
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Ah, I see. Thank you for clearing that up.
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| Cody Towner | Apr 11 2009, 05:34 PM Post #15 |
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If realism is what we're aiming for, then the Pokemon should be crossbreeds. And Nidoqueen not breeding? If that's what we're objecting to, then why is no one trying to change that as well? I was assuming we were being smart enough to say Nidoqueen COULD breed. What I said does not void itself. Like I said, put the strawman down and look at the big picture. It doesn't raise the value of eggs. It simply dissuades people from going through the now even longer process. Sure, egg prices might go up a little, but you will now hardly see any eggs ever because of it. |
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:male. Now the Chikorita nows lots of egg moves such as leech seed counter ancient power flail nature power ingrain grass whistle leaf storm aroma therapy and wring out. So now you have a trainer with those pokemon, now you go to him and say, "Hey I want a bulbasaur, your chikorita nows many egg moves, which when breeded with a bulbasaur will be very strong. And you want a bulbasaur. Now all that time and stuff to breed your pokemon, to carry the egg and the parents, the consequences of the parents breeding. And you don't what you will get so then, you don't get that money and the stuff being offered in the beggining, you have to wait all that time. Then if you don't have a bulbasaur you just got a pokemon you didn't want your bidder didn't want, and now you must wait for someone to come along and buy it. I'm not saying it won't be bought up quickly after that since the father has all of the egg moves. But lets take away all those egg moves, then your baby won't be as powerful when born. But not only that if you don't breed the right pokemon, you have all those consequences, and it won't be bought nearly as fast with all the eggmoves.