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UAW's bail out
Topic Started: Nov 18 2008, 07:01 AM (2,250 Views)
The Punisher
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towermonkey
Nov 21 2008, 10:59 AM
I was listening to one of the talk radio shows a day or two ago and a guy called in that worked for GM and was a member of UAW. He said the new-hires to the union are not payed much, around $15/hour, and the benefits are almost non-existent.


BTW, TPP's Obama thing is true - just follow the link. There is ABC film footage of the event. Bill Richardson was looking at him and his face said "What the hell's wrong with you?"
Thanks I know, but trying to get the TRUTH across here is well like :brickwall:
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The Punisher
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Gringa
Nov 21 2008, 11:34 AM
TM, I was reading yesterday that the average employee at GM costs the company an astounding $78 a hour, due to the benefits. They are taking home, before taxes, about $28 a hour.
I like the guy that told us about being lated off for 20 years and still getting his $60.00 an hour pay, from one of the 3...
Why didn't he send it back? He's a good union man, & didn't want to cause the others to get screwed... If that's getting screwed than I may have to rethink things...
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archer
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You might want to read this article gringa to get an idea of just how much union auto workers are....or are not...being paid. The $70+/hour is hype. They apparently make about $28/hour. The additional is not their benefits alone but the benefits being paid to all current workers plus retired workers and then divided by the number of current workers. We all know there are a lot of auto worker retirees out there.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=1026e955-541c-4aa6-bcf2-56dfc3323682
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The Punisher
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Come on The New Republic…
But that’s cool…
From a link in your article…
Posted Image

Let’s just take 1 spin-sentence, in the bias story…
“Analysts came up with it by including the cost of all employer-provided benefits--namely, health insurance and pensions--and then dividing by the number of workers.”Now where does the author think this cost comes from?
Enlighten yourself…

The True Cost of Hiring
http://www.cfo2grow.com/media/news_info.asp?id=20

How Much Does An Employee Cost?
http://web.mit.edu/e-club/hadzima/how-much-does-an-employee-cost.html

THE “TRUE” COST OF AN EMPLOYEE
http://www.nwstaffing.com/forms/TrueCostOfEmployee.pdf
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Gringa
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archer
Nov 21 2008, 12:41 PM
You might want to read this article gringa to get an idea of just how much union auto workers are....or are not...being paid. The $70+/hour is hype. They apparently make about $28/hour. The additional is not their benefits alone but the benefits being paid to all current workers plus retired workers and then divided by the number of current workers. We all know there are a lot of auto worker retirees out there.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=1026e955-541c-4aa6-bcf2-56dfc3323682
Yes, you are right - I read it yesterday. The benefits they are paying (total) to current and past employees works out to $78 a hour for the current employee... How are they suppose to compete?
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archer
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TPP....did you forget to read the part about the number of retirees the big 3 would have vs the number the newer transplanted auto makers would have?

The issue to me from reading this article is that no matter how low the hourly wage goes for their employees....the old contracts will haunt them until those retirees die, or the companies go through bankruptcy and restructure their existing pension plans. Which is a crappy thing to do as those retirees retired based on those promises, but it may be absolutely essential. For those of us who retired without any pension plan other than what we put together over the years in IRA's 401ks and investments.......it's hard to be really sympathetic. My dad told me all during my working years....the only person you can depend on to fund your retirement is you. I think all those auto worker retirees needed a dad like mine.
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Bigtoe
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Well Archer, the difference is that many worked for years earning less pay then they could have at other shops or as independent contractors in order to earn the retirement benefits. It was part of the employment contract. Is it fair, now that the workers have fulfilled their end of the bargain that the Automakers drop theirs while still flying the execs around in private jets and paying huge salaries and bonuses? Also, if they figure hourly pay the same way that many other corps do that figure not only includes legacy costs like pensions and retiree insurace, but also big management bonuses. It's a bogus figure and this is nothing but a transparent attempt at union busting.
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DaisyLover

I find it interesting that manna is glaringly absent from this discussion. What's going on?

This is EXACTLY why I believe that bigtoe and manna are one and the same.

Edited by DaisyLover, Nov 21 2008, 10:35 PM.
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Bigtoe
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Hah! You guys (and gal) are really obsessed with Manna. Nope- not him. I don't like Vegas, don't play golf, don't drink much and don't take picutres of my food. (that's kind of weird- no offense Gringa.) But go ahead and speculate Daisy.
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archer
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I don't disagree with you bigtoe....just wondering if the big three fail if there will be any money left for the retirees or will the taxpayers pick up the tab? And could those benefits be restructured like many other companies have done? there are no easy answers when big companies like this fail......I don't see a bailout solving their long term problems......and I don't see management ever coming to grips with the way things are now as opposed to the way things have always been....We are all going to be sacrificing something over the next few years I think.

Of course they have obligations to their former employees.....but if the company is gone, what happens to those obligations?

Edited by archer, Nov 21 2008, 11:10 PM.
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