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Topic Started: Mar 30 2009, 10:04 PM (1,080 Views)
Gringa
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Naw, you will not get rid of drugs until humans no longer want to change their brain chemistry by any substance they can get their hands on......
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LadyJazzer
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Here we go again... Here is the post from back in August about all this hysterical crap put out by the gun lobby, and what I found when I researched the actual "facts":

Here are the so-called "facts" as presented:

Quote:
 
FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people
who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00219

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 2008. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00217

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, "Obama: 'Common Sense Regulation' On Gun Owners' Rights," ABC News' "Political Radar" Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-common-se.html

5. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2004 SB 2165, vote 20.

6. In the Illinois Senate, Obama sponsored SB-1136, which would have amended Illinois licensing laws by increasing the requirements for the Illinois Firearm Owners Identification card. When asked about registration during the Nevada Democratic debate on January 17, 2008, Obama did not oppose it, but simply stated, “I don’t think that we can get that done.” http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/us/politics/15demdebate-transcript.html?pagewanted=all

7. “Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and "Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns," Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7.

9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2007/04/clinton_edwards.html

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/barack_obama_comments_on_shoot.html

14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urbanpolicy/#crime-and-law-enforcement.

15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm Oct 21, 2004.

16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.


-----------------------------
LadyJazzer
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:45 pm


"Raptor"
 
"monkeygirl"
 
Then post his voting record. And don't forget to post the bills so we can see what he was actually voting for or against.


You asked for it. Here it is:

The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where apparent nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.

But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama voted against the confirmation of 2 of the 5 Justices that affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms.


GOOD.


"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1


I'm non-commital, but basically I think going after manufacturers instead of perpetrators is a stupid idea.


"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.15


"Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views." --

What part of that didn't you understand?



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3


The bill was about "ARMOR-PIERCING" ammunition... Ban it? You bet... GOOD.


"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9


I can live with that...



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2



"Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views." --

What part of that didn't you understand?


"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4



I agree that local gun bans shouldn't supercede the 2nd Amendment. The Supreme Court upheld it. So? A lot of people opposed it.


"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5



"Local gun bans" already dealt with in previous so-called "fact". Use of firearms in self-defense is a states-rights issue, and varies from state to state--as it should. Not a federal issue.



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6



GOOD!! Licensing and registration is a good thing and doesn't prevent anyone from owning one, unless they fall into one of the outlawed categories: convicted felon, child-molester, wife-beater, etc.



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.



Perhaps that was because he thought local municipalities should have the right to ban them... (Already discussed in the previous so-called "fact"...


"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7



Also a states-rights issue, and varies from state-to-state. Not a federal issue.


"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8



And what is the source that the Joyce Foundation "is the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and research"? The fact that he is on their Board of Directors doesn't doesn't say a thing about that being their function... By the way, did you actually look at Page 7 of the report? (It's not sourced with a link but here it is:)

http://www.joycefdn.org/pdf/98_AnnualReport.pdf

Look at Page-7... THERE IS NOTHING about guns, Obama, Board of Directors or any other such garbage. It talks about wanting Milwaukee's children to get a good education, and how reading proficiency drops to 27 percent by the 8th grade. If you're going to quote something as a "proof" of someone's anti-gun stance you might want to see if it actually talks about that or something else...

:rof laughing: :rof laughing: :rof laughing:

"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9



Not a bad proposal... Five miles might be a bit excessive, but keeping gun shops away from schools & parks is not a bad idea.



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10



Would that be anything like the warrantless spying, eavesdropping, privacy-rights violations, and internet tracking of US citizens that the Bushies have instituted in the last 8 years? Tell you what--You get McCain to commit to removing all of the 4th-Amendment violations that Bush put in place, and I'll give you this one...



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11


B.F.D.



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12



So, the source on this is a transcript of a conservative radio talk-show nutjob? Ooooookay....



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13


Same category as registration... I don't have any heartburn with it. But then, as you guys are so fond of saying, "Well, if you don't have anything to hide, then what's the problem?"


"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2


GOOD!!! So do most Americans, I believe.


"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14



So....?



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16



GOOD. A reasonable restriction.


"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9



Actually, the quote is: "He's also banning the sale of 'junk" handguns like the popular Saturday Night Specials."

GOOD.



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9



I don't necessarily agree with this, but I also don't see it as any big deal--unless, of course, you're trying to scare the gun-rights folks.



"Raptor"
 
FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9



Twenty-one seems a bit harsh. In rural areas and some communities, kids start at 13-14 or earlier. I would think that someone younger than 18 could be required to take a safety program; and 18 & above would be reasonable for ownership.


By the way, a bunch of these so-called (read: hysterical) "facts" are based on the article from the Chicago Defender (9), but in looking at the article, it doesn't cite anything as proof of any of this. That would be like me writing an article about something with no proof, and then citing the article over and over again as "proof" of something...

[EDITED TO ADD: I decided to go back and read this article a little more...It's even more irrelevent than I thought. First, it's from an article written 9 years ago; Second, here is the setup:

Quote:
 
Sweeping federal gun control legislation proposed by Sen. Barack Obama (D-13th) would increase the penalties on gun runners who are flooding Chicago's streets with illegal weapons.

At an anti-gun rally held at the Park Manor Christian Church, 600 E. 73rd St., headed by the Rev. James Demus, Obama also said he's backing a resolution being introduced into the City Council by Alds. Toni Preckwinkle (4th), Ted Thomas (15th), Leslie Hairston (5th) to call for a "shot-free" millennium celebration.


Hmmmmm... "Increase penalties on gun-runners who are flooding Chicago's streets with illegal weapons"....And what part of that is a bad thing? Backing a resolution to be introduced "into the City Council"?!?!?! Oh no!! HORROR! HORROR! Dec, 1999?!?!? Calling for a "'shot-free' millennium celebration" (of the 2000 New Year)?---Yeah, that's really anti-gun subversive... Oh no!! HORROR! HORROR!

:rof laughing: :rof laughing: :rof laughing: :rof laughing: :rof laughing:



And since you didn't bother to quote the source of this whole hit-piece, it's from "http://www.exposeobama.com/". You might want to find something a little more believable to begin with. (Jeez, you guys REALLY need a new source of hit-material...)

As I love to say, that dog won't hunt.... Nice try though...
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Mtnman
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Gringa, the peeps who sell the drugs are the ones getting the Brain dead druggies hooked in the first place.

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archer
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Mtnman
Mar 31 2009, 05:28 PM
Gringa, the peeps who sell the drugs are the ones getting the Brain dead druggies hooked in the first place.

You can't sell what people don't want....
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Mtnman
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When I grew up there were guys giving out samples of drugs mary jane etc. the kids that got them either bought later and became hooked or didn't, if they hadn't been given them then they may have never been hooked.
WE know my wifes sister is still a druggie today after all these years. Now she brags about being on Legal Drugs...

Me was a jock Liked Beer. Now Beer,, and some good scotch, tequila, and Vodka.
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SSB

LJ....go play your guitar.....you KNOW that.
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Main Man
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Mtnman
Mar 31 2009, 05:13 PM
You will not get rid of drugs till you get rid of the Big Guys in the US making all the money from them.
You will not get rid of drug dealers till you get rid of drug users.
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Mtnman
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so that is why we need the ammo....

I think some here have done a few to many trips...
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LadyJazzer
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SSB
Mar 31 2009, 07:39 PM
LJ....go play your guitar.....you KNOW that.
Oh, now there's an intelligent response... Just attack the poster rather than deal with the facts...

Tiresome...but predictable...
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Mtnman
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I heard that they are gonna ban guitar strings.
And retired peeps will pay 500% tax on their 250.00 One time check.
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